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Lumpers/Splitters & Umbrella Groups

To: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.order,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan,alt.religion.wicca
From: nagasiva 
Subject: Lumpers/Splitters & Umbrella Groups (was How long does any type of Root work last?)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:48:53 GMT

50020412 VI om

sri catyananda :
>I suggested that he use the more general term "African and
>African-Diasporic" -- as the DMOZ directory does -- to cover the entire
>field. He wrote me that he thinks this is a good idea, and he will
>probably implement it. 

did he realize your connection with DMOZ in that regard? interesting.

>This would make "African and African-Diasporic" equivalent in scope to
>"Neo-Paganism," which he refers to as an "umbrella group" because it
>includes Wicca, Aatru, Druidry, and Magick (Thelema). 

I wonder at the value of using 'umbrella groups' and how easily it
may be accomplished to discern where the umbrella covers and what
it does not cover. there is good reason in some ways to integrate
all those under 'Neo-Pagan', and yet the term 'Magick' doesn't seem
to imply religion and Thelema isn't specifically billing itself as
revivalist. the argument could be made that his categories over-reach.

>> Using your argument, we might as well lump neo-paganism in with
>> "primal-indigenous" religions, from which they *may have* sprung.  
>> That makes it 190 million to 20 million.  Vodou loses again.
> That's specious. Neo-Pagan religions such as Wicca and Thelema did not
> spring from "primal indigenous religions -- and, more importantly, they 
> has no functional relationship to those religions at the present time.

of course if you ask the right Neopagan, you're going to get plenty of
folks contending that Tom's assertion is correct on account of their
fabulizing religious leaders and willingness to believe in legends as
history. this seems to be shared with at least Muslim and Christian
cultures, in which folktales and legends are mixed with history to
provide a persuasive entertainment (scripture). 

> ...these are not "revivals" in the sense that Neo-Pagan religions 
> are -- they are true surviving lineages that are, in many cases, 
> in the process of reuiniting after a long diaspora. 

have any idea what is being revived in "Magick (Thelema)"? Gnosticism?


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