a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


Jung Cult, Archetype Dogma

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.mythology,alt.pagan.magick,sci.psychology.theory,alt.psychology.jung
From: Solar-Phallus 
Subject: Jung Cult, Archetype Dogma

50030620 VIII PISCES-AGE-Y2006

from my outbox:

> ...Archetypes are not found in the brain..they are not created 
> by evolution and do not have their roots in science but in 
> mysticism.  

are they to be found at all, or are they just imagined?
how can we distinguish between the real and the imaginary
when there is no criteria for distinguishing between what
you are calling the 'spiritual' and what I call the 'imagined'?

> Yes,  I'm suggesting that there is a spiritual realm where 
> consciousness exists outside of the brain and physical 
> body and that this is where this information is stored 
> for us to access....

that's a fantasy. it's unfortunate that occultism and
mysticism have been deluded by this false dualism, but
there is it. please point me to something that you take
to be contrary evidence to my assertion.

if you would like to refute me by asking me (as many 
have) how I would contrariwise explain the phenomenon 
of subjective experience with relation merely to brains
and evolution, then I can do so easily with reference
to the dual-character of consciousness (experiencER and
experiencED; subject and object) which requires no 
fantasy realms that cannot be observed outside the 
minds of religious converts.

> One way to convince oneself of the concept of archetypes ....

one might convince oneself of the reality of irrational
things, but is this truly valuable? what will it do 
to help us apprehend the real, if we are fabricating
fictions and treating them like they have been confirmed
before we even scrutinize and doubt them? this is why I
have maintained that Noll is *correct* in identifying
Jungians as religious (he uses the correct term in his
description: "cult") and archetypes as religious dogmas.

to another, not me, the same author wrote:
> ...this is you saying that there are no archetypes?  
> Why do you say that?  Again,  I do not believe that proof 
> of this will ever cannot measure something in 
> scientific terms if it is not of the material world and 
> this is why so many things which are now attracting huge 
> amounts of attention will never be able to be proven.  
> And they don't need to,  I'm really not 
> suggesting that we need to take things on faith alone...
> I think that's something that the religious believe is 
> important/key to their path of following one religion vs. 
> another religion,  but I'm suggesting that we can have 
> and honor knowledge which is obtained by combining our 
> observation skills with our intuition and our intellect 
> and come to our own conclusions which are rooted in 
> "enough proof" to be applicable as tools in our life...
> and yes, in our tarot readings as well.

the burden of proof rests in the laps of those who make
the more outrageous and unusual claims as compared with
other agreed knowledge. you claim an entire "spiritual
realm" but offer no evidence of its reality beyond the
imagination of mystics and religious (whom I call the
deluded and deceived). I am not saying that what you're
trying to explain is illusory, just that your theories
for explaining it are irrational and require a greater
burden of proof than you (or those like you) have
heretofore been able to meet with clear evidence.

the religious consistently opaque, obscure, and cover
over knowledge (which is derived from science, and not
just materialist science, by the way) for the purpose
of making the universe seem more simple, controlled,
and human-centered than it really is. part of the work
of those interested in *truth* is the application of
critical thinking to unravel and dissolve the fantasies
which obsess religious and mystical converts, whether
these are encountered in the study of tarot, astronomy,
time, or the condition and history of all known things. 

when someone says "archetypes are fictions" or claims
that they aren't universal, are conditioned and are
accrued as most other databits in enculturation as one
develops and grows within a culture, then your job is
to point out what you have discovered beyond the
expressions of religious and mystics which supports
these fantastic notions, if you wish to be convincing.


emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired; 
HOODOO CATALOGUE! send street addy to:

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races