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From: catherine yronwode 
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tantra
Subject: Re: vajroli
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:43:12 -0800
Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
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rishikesh40 wrote:
> i wanted help on the proper technique
> of practice of VAJROLI .
> it is  also done by insertion of a
> catheter in the penile urethra and
> then practising the mula bandha
> i want to know how exactly to practise this technique
> because i feel it is slightly risky.
> any help would be gratefully accepted.
> with love
> rishikesh

I am posting the following for an a.m..t. reader who prefers to remain
anonymous. The opinions are his. I will append mine (with his
pertmission) between and among his comments: 

> Vajroli is an esoteric practice that perhaps make sense within the 
> culture where it started. von Lysebeth 

in "Tantra: the Cult of the Feminine" -- a highly recommended text

> included a whole chapter in his book, which seems to give it an 
> unwarranted significance in a book directed at
> westerners.   

Mantak Chia also mentions it in his books for westerners, hence it has
come to be expected fare, albeit not mainstream, in books describing
western sex-magical and sexo-spiritual practices. 

> The following comments are intended for the context of
> western culture, leaving for the more knowledgeable to comment on the
> native contexts of vajroli. Western culture certainly includes anybody
> asking medical or sexual questions on USENET, regardless of nominal
> ethnicity! I would think the proper answer to questions about vajroli
> and related techniques is: ask the local guru knowledgeable about such 
> matters. If you don't know who that is, you're not in the appropriate 
> culture.

> For westerners, vajroli and certain other esoteric yogic practices
> might well be considered to be a perversion just as much as the more
> extreme "mortification of the flesh" practices of some legendary 
> Christian hermits. 

My theory exactly! 

> The essence of the perversion is that while nominally 
> undertaken to glorify God or tantric principles they in practice 
> actually redirect the attention back to the hermit practitioner in an 
> act of anti-humility. 

This is what i call "sexual gymnastics," and i agree, it is similar in
intent, if not in appearance, to the self-mutilation and extreme
renunciations of not only Christians but holy fanatics of various

Vajroli has never been a mainstream part of Indian tantra, but Indian
culture accepts such ascetic behavioural extremes as "holy" to this day,
while Euro-American cultural norms decreed some time in the 19th century
that such behavoiurs were "pathological." The Catholic Church is left
with a few embarrssing saints (such as The Alaqoque, who drank urine
from sick people and rubbed her body with the scabs and sores of
lepers), but these days, even cases of bleeding stigmata are given short
shrift. In India, however, such extremes of behaviour are less harshly

> An important principle of spiritual sex is
> to direct attention from the man's experience toward the woman's, both 
> to undo undue cultural conditioning and because a spiritual experience 
> seems to be more readily accessible to the untrained woman, and 
> therefore she typically leads the way for the untrained man.   
> The woman's subjective experience is not
> the ultimate goal, but a waypoint to fix upon, toward the goal of 
> losing the individual boundaries of the man and woman, merging with 
> each other and then with the universal cosmic rhythm. It appears that 
> ordinary means of breath and muscle control and verbal communication 
> are more than adequate for most couples to control the orgasmic reflex 
> when desired and proceed to higher states. 

I think this is true not only in western adaptations of tantra yoga, but
in eastern, indigenous forms as well. 

> For westerners to go farther than that, in the direction of esoteric 
> practices like vajroli, seems idolatrous - confusing the means with 
> the end and actually redirecting attention back to the man's wonderful 
> endowments and accomplishments.     

Hindu culture is generrally disrespectful to women. Tantra yoga contains
remnant elements of Sakti (female goddess) worship, but it has been
compromised by centuries of adaptation to male-centered "Aryan" sky-god
religions which focus on the primacy of ther male. Similarly, Chinese
Taoist sex alchem tends to focus on the man's "wonderful endowments and
accomplishments" -- a state of mind not unexpected in ancient China,
whgerew women were not treated with political equality. 

> Maybe it's a common complaint in certain parts of
> India, but I've never read anything from a western woman to the effect
> that a certain man would be an excellent spiritual partner if he just 
> would fully embrace the vajroli practice for her benefit. 


> Premature ejaculation can be an impediment but it seems in most cases 
> to be amenable to ordinary disciplines when both partners sincerely 
> want better control.

Well said, Mr. Anonymous. 

catherine yronwode

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