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The Tantra

From: (nagasiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,
Subject: Re: The Tantra
Date: 17 May 1995 20:39:27 -0700

Kali Yuga 49950517

a correspondent writes:
|     Promoting Positive Christian Intimacy & Sexuality
|      Tantra: The Old Lost Art Of Fulfilling Sexuality

A more controversial means of defining 'tantra' to be sure, though fairly
popular (i.e. tantra = sexuality).  With most people's understanding of
the term 'sexuality' I'd disagree, but some need tantra to mean this.
I shall only review specific assertions about tantra here as I reflect on
my understanding/experience of it.

|...We need to take back sexuality and integrate it with our spirits in a 
|way that results in much more love, intimacy and fulfillment than what our 
|culture has taught us. That is the basic teaching of Tantra.

I think the basic teaching of tantra is spontaneity, not limited to the
context of sexuality.

|...Tantra is an example of powerful integration of spirit and body in a 
|positive, uplifting, healing way. 

My understanding is that tantra involves integrating both aspects of all
polarities, not just selecting the positive, uplifting or healing.
Typically, presuming no dichotomy such as 'spirit and body' from the
start, there is no 'problem' to be resolved.

|...Tantric sex can create an extraordinary partnership between a couple.

I think this is poorly stated.  Tantric sex *is* an extraordinary partnership
between two people or among more than two people.  It is not some scientific
fuck-method.  No matter how many positions or techniques one might have to
improve the 'quality' of orgasm or intercourse or whatever type of sexuality
you think you have, the bare bones are that without sufficient attention
and connection it will gradually fade and you'll be left with the same old
feelings of dissatisfaction and unfulfillment.  

Tantric sex is the integration of all aspects of life into the realm of
sexuality (if you like, sensuality).  It is the Low Art of Eroticism,
turning everything into fucking, not focussing everything on our limited 
concepts of fucking.

|Christian Tantra
|By excluding the Hindu ideas, Tantra can help integrate positive sexuality
|with Christianity. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  Please, spare us the religious claptrap.  Excluding any
religion or sect from you will only prolong the agony.

|Tantra teaches positive sexuality and ways of emotional, spiritual and 
|physical communication which is far more meaningful than Christian 

Tantra doesn't 'teach' anything, though we may learn through the practice
of tantra (weaving).

|I uphold the Tantra teachings that can be so easily adopted into a 
|Christian view. 

Yes, I'm sure you are a quite proficient 'supplier'.

|Sample Of Tantra Techniques

[loads of theory omitted]

|Awakening The Sacred Spot ....

The G-spot?  Oh you are funny.  I suppose then one of your techniques is
the stimulation of this erogenous zone.  Sorry, that's the only thing I
noticed which came close to a 'technique' you are offering up here. 
Quite disappointing, though to be expected by sex-centered tantrists.

|Tantra refers to a series of esoteric Hindu books that describe certain
|sexual rituals and meditations. These ancient Indian books, over two
|thousand years old, were written in the form of a dialogue between the
|Hindu god Shiva, who is  the penetrating power of focused energy,  and his
|consort, Shakti, who represents the female creative force.  

This is one meaning for the term 'tantra' and is more like 'sutra' in the
religion of Buddhism.  There are many others, of course.

[propaganda omitted]

|...When couples lessen their lovemaking they begin the process of starving 
|their love. Love is nourished by the sexual energy a couple generates. 
|Tantra teaches how to create the spiritual energy of passion needed to 
|sustain it.

This is simply false.  You are of course referring to LUST, and equating it
with love here.  It is one more falsity promoted by those who would 
capitalize on the finances or admiration of the sex-/touch-starved.

I agree that through tantra we may learn the sustenance of passion and of
compassion, but this is due not to the focus upon physical sexuality
specifically, but in the practice of opening up all the various aspects
of the person and experiencing them directly.  It can be a very frightening
process.  It turns lives upside-down.

You will talk about how tickling and touching serve to transform the
'spiritual essence' and yet I say that nothing is touched in a lasting
way in the techniques you describe.  Sleep comes to all those who bite
into the Apple of Yama, lest we also taste the Razor of Siva in one of
His forms.

|...This is the power of Tantra, that powerfully teaches techniques
|to keep the passionate partnership alive and nourished in all three areas
|of love. 

Supported by sticks and twigs, we pretend we are real humans while all
along we become deformed and rancid in our precious pretense.  At first
it is likely to be as you say.  However, even these 'breaking of tabus'
(considering sex as a POSITIVE THING, oh my!) will gain us little as
all the 'techniques' to which you refer becomes traps of somnambulism.

|True Intimacy: The Sexual Gap Between Men And Women Many woman
|use the word intimacy to describe what is most important to them sexually.
|Sexual intimacy is a special kind of closeness, a communication that is
|deeper than the couple can achieve physically, a sharing that goes beyond
|material partnership. This profound connection is described by many women
|as a spiritual connection, or as the feeling of having found one s soulmate
|.  Women relate it to the heart or the soul more than to the brain or the
|genitals, although when true sexual intimacy does occur, sexual passion is
|its by- product.  When one becomes intimate  one becomes passionate,
|excited, energized and turned on. A women is aroused, stirred deeply and

Ideals with little basis.  Women have no more conception, on the whole,
about intimacy than do men.  True intimacy escapes the bounds of the
bedroom.  It requires a pushing of the envelope beyond the simple and
ecstatic, into the forbidden, the horrible, and the blasphemous.  Until
one takes *this* journey, all the talk of 'tantra' is just shadowplay.

|...Tantra teaches couples to relate on the deepest intimacy level and 
|maintain that passion.

From what I have heard in this file, the focus is physically-centered.
I don't see that this teaches people to do anything except focus their
needs into the physical world and, eventually, desensitize.

|...Tantra teaches men how to enjoy deeper levels of intimacy and how 
|to heal and stimulate a women sexually far more than through just 

With this I finally tend to agree, although I would extend the 'more than
just through intercourse' to extend within *all* of life-activities.  Sex
is only *one* means of weaving this Great Work.

[stereotyping idiocy omitted]

|Tantra was designed centuries ago for couples to learn specifically how
|these differences between the sexes can be used as a positive force in a
|passionate partnership built on long lasting love and intimacy,
|emotionally, spiritually and physically. 

Bah, it is fundamentally a mystical tradition which focusses upon the
use of psychophysical techniques to counter social programming.  The
things you mention are byproducts of the success of the method, they
are not the goals in and of themselves.

|Tantra teaches that the combination of these differences between the 
|sexes can produce a near-alchemical reaction, an ether in which both 
|flourish, in which the garden of your relationship bursts with color 
|and new life and growth, and you and your beloved thrive.

Most of the Newage Tantrics are selling placebos which serve to allow
the individual to explore previously forbidden areas of sexuality and
intimacy.  Sometimes they will encourage self-knowledge through getting
to know the somatic dimension.  Usually, however, they do not go beyond
this and typically those who learn these things move on to other things,
just as ephemeral, just as unconscious, never liberated by their tantrism.

|Tantra also teaches shared intimacy for the moment between couples, not
|lifelong partners but those who want to experience positive intimacy with
|different partners.  

I would agree that the side-effect of engaging tantra is a release of
monogamy and future goals.  It is not the endpoint, but a symptom of
the weaving.

|The techniques are powerful as long as the man is open to seeking the 
|most for his partner, not just his physical sexual desires.

This is over-stated.  Again the focus comes down to the man.  Unfortunately
the stereotypes don't go as far as the author contends and the focus ought
be on all individuals in a relation, not just a hetero-man.

|Tantra's sexual element is only a part of its focus, a part of a means to 
|an end.  Tantra's goals are more exalted and broader in scope than just 
|being proficient in physical love. 

I would tend to agree with this and also note that tantra is not truly
centered on the physical plane, though such a focus can assist in some
individuals.  This is the reasoning behind the Indian chakra system which 
this author deplores: each metaphysical center indicates an entire range of
human experience.  Only the lowest (and most dense) relates to the
physical.  Centering there won't break the rest open so as to be 'free
flowing'.  Working on other centers completely can inspire proficiency
in connection, physical or otherwise, WITHOUT THE TECHNIQUES (G-spot,
hehehe, and otherwise) mentioned in this text.

|The ultimate goal is unity as a couple and with each other's spirits in 
|a highly developed form of communication between partners.  

This is a far cry from the cosmic communion that is possible within the
path of weaving.

|...Today men and women can learn to teach each other and Tantra can help. 
|They might consider Tantra as a kind of extension course - a class in love 
|and relationship. 

And of course this is all it shall become.  One more fad in a sequence of
fads, none addressing the indwelling problems which each of us has as a
result of socialization and indoctrination, though it shall serve to make
the tantra-merchants welathy.

|...Tantra recognizes that when a woman increases her sexual power,
|she adds to the strength of her spiritual aspect as well.

While likely true, I think that it is just or more important for everyone
(not only women) to take some of the emphasis OFF sexuality as a means of
self-fulfillment.  Women's 'sexual power' is a function of self-esteeem as
much as it is self-confidence and willingness to risk and open to 
vulnerability.  This is the same for men.  The stereotypes you are
promoting do not assist us in breaking beyond these rigid classifications.

|Brief excerpts were taken from an excellent book Tantra The Art Of
|Conscious Loving by Charles and Caroline Muir

You didn't set out the quotes that I noticed.


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