a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


Taoist and tantric magick?

Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan
From: (mikemagee)
Subject: Re: Taoist and tantric magick?
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 22:26:13 +0000

In article <2sggst$>
  "Kurt Keutzer" writes:

> More generally what I  meant was that there is, to
> my knowledge, almost no overlap between the lineages of Tantrism 
> (Buddhist or Hindu) and the lineages of Magick. Your own lineage, which I
> mentioned, is the only one of which I am aware and the addition of Magick
> to the Adinatha lineage is a recent phenomenon.  From reading "Aleister 
> Crowley and the Hidden God" it does not appear to me that Aleister Crowley
> was an adept of any tantric lineage of which I am aware.  That's just

The strange thing -- something Kenneth Grant pointed out to me
years ago -- was that Sir John Woodroffe & Crowley were contemporaries yet
despite the fact AC acknowledged Hindu tantra as relevant to his
quest, he never, to the best of my knowledge, mentioned any of the
books Woodroffe (Arthur Avalon) wrote. If anyone knows different,
I'd appreciate the reference. The Hymn to Kali tr by Woodroffe
contains very explicit references to consumption of semen and menses,
for example.
> Well, he better not be, but obviously the two practices are related.
> Ditto for stupifying enemies etc. Or lets choose and easier one -
> Is a Buddhist practicing kumbhaka pranayama within the completion stage
> of Chakrasamvara tantra performing the same practice as a Hindu practicing
> kumbhaka pranayama within the instructions of the Natha Sampradya? 
> That's harder to judge. The topic is worthy of a few good books as you 
> and I have discussed before. 

It's hard to say. What's pretty apparent is that the Natha
sampradaya was a very eclectic and heterodox cult and included
Buddhistic and Hindu elements. They also rather spurned the
use of classy Sanskrit and certainly weren't keen on the caste
system. In later times, Islamic influences crept in too. And
even within the Natha sampradaya there were dozens of sub-sects
each of which had their own way of doing things. The Gorakhnath
Panth seem to have been celibate males but that certainly wasn't
the case with other of the sub-sects.

> Hindu Tantrism is too diverse to generalize, but within the schools that
> I am familiar the goal is to raise the kundalini to the sahasra and
> permanently establish it there.
> These motivations are not mutually exclusive, but they are not mutually
> inclusive either.

Interestingly, the Kaulajnananirnaya has only one reference to
kundalini and in the original sanskrit text edited by Bagchi there
are shorter texts attributed to Matsyendranath which say the
path of kundalini is a misleading way. Need to hoik out the
reference -- I've been searching for this text for months.

> So I guess it's time to ask you directly: In what way does Magick naturally 
> complement the yoga of the Adinatha Siddhas? Could you talk a little bit
> more as to why those in your lineage have chosen to exposit your teachings
> as you have?
> Regards, Kurt
Dattatreya, the legendary founder of the Naths, is attributed
as an avadhuta with behaving according to his own will (Sveccha).
Dadaji compared this state with the realisation of the true
will -- my own feeling is that True Will is the spontaneous
(sahaja) manifestation of the Shiva within, if you like, beyond
names and beyond forms. It shines by its own light, goes
wheresoever it wills by the power of its own will.

Dadaji was much influenced by Crowley as I myself was, although
obviously not directly. I found in the Adinatha sampradaya a 
deeper, older and more complete manifestation of that current.

In the Brihadnilatantra, Shiva is made to say that on the path
of acting according to one's own will (Svecchacharya) there are
no rules whatsoever. That tantra and others of the Kaula tradition
refer to a free state which chimes with the thelemic or magickal


The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races