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Tantra East and West

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From: (nagasiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.magick.tantra
Subject: Tantra East and West
Date: 9 Jul 1997 14:42:58 -0700
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49970709 aa2 Hail Satan!

om krim nama kaliya

as always, I make no claims toward traditional associations, being eclectic
and iconoclastic in nature.  take what I say as that which I have learned
from reading about the tantra of others, from my own experience and from 
studies with an entity I know as 'Kali'. (JACK KETCH):
# The Life Force is contained within Sexual fluids, and anyone that
# disagrees doesn't know what they're talking about! 

literally this appears to be only partially true.  since living beings are
often said, within this model to be 'enthused by the life force', the sex
fluids are only concentrations of this supposed force.  

those who disagree may do so on the grounds that no evidence for this
'force' has ever been found.

# ...The whole purpose of Magick is to attract/direct Energy. I am into 
# Tantra from the Occident, not the self denial from the East. 

actually it is the *activity* of magick which includes involvement with
'energy' as such, as do modern Neopagans, new agers and psychics. 
strictly speaking, it need not at all be involved with magical rites in
the slightest, which need only include symbolic ritual and tools.

'Tantra from the Occident' is typically shallow and sex-related, as is
what you are apparently describing.  usually it is the activity of those
who are quite obsessed with sexuality and who are attempting to use that
obsession to liberate ourselves from our feelings of powerlessness.

the East, that often being 'Tantra Yoga', does often include discipline
and therefore self-restriction.  'self-denial' is perhaps an exaggeration
here.  in Right-hand Tantra symbolic elements substitute for what is in 
Left-hand or Vamamarg Tantra a literalism.  there are differing opinions
as to what benefits and skills are associated with each of them.  in the
Vamamarg it is more difficult to render a charge of 'self-denial', even
while discipline is a central element (as is it fused with indulgence).

# I don't know about you, but I like to give and receive Pleasure! 

this appears to be fairly universal, but not necessarily the only
element of tantra by my standards.

# Anyone that denies that Sex is a Ritual doesn't know what Sex is! 

there are a variety of meanings for the term 'sex' for which 'ritual'
would not apply.  your claim is rather ambiguous, but it implies the
Sacred Marriage or Hieros Gamos known to many tantrics and alchemists.

# Who all agrees?

I think you have said very little, but am willing to hear more.


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