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To: alt.magick
From: "Nuit" 
Subject: Re: Golden Dawn Questions
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 12:17:53 -0700

 wrote in message
news:8cqgb4$jgu$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8clgje$f1d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > 2. Was Regardie's 6=5 an honorary or actual grade?
> >
> Regardie's grade was PURELY honorary. But this is true of all the
> Golden Dawn grades.
>
> Those who pass through these grades attain the grade "ceremonially",
> and not necessarily in reality. True, they might actually possess the
> grade in reality, but the two do not go hand in hand.

Crowley made an interesting differentiation here. He referred to having long
had certain Second Order grades "in nature" rather than "the Spiritual
Grades," which came at a later time. I have understood "Natural" and
"Spiritual" in this sense to mean Yetziratic and Briatic. And, from an
examination of the classic Golden Dawn system, it would indeed seem that the
First Order grades are worked in Assiah, and the Second Order in Yetzirah;
just as, in the A.'.A.'., the corresponding grades are Briatic.

This might be a useful distinction for some people to follow up on. I like
it better than "real" and "unreal," because they are a "real" *something.*
(It's like that card in the old Morgan deck that has what appears to be a
really badly hand-drawn circle, and a caption something like, "This may not
be a perfect circle, but it IS a perfect whatever-it-is.") The grades are
quite efficacious (when competently delivered, and, especially, in the
context of a temple system that really understands them and supports them
with collateral training). But, yet, they are not everything one might
fantasize them to be in the ideal. The question to answer is, What is it
that they actually are? I think the above disctinction works very well for
this.

> If only this was so!!! Because then, it would just be necessary to get
> all members of society to pass through these rituals, and the world in
> which we live would be a true PARADISE. Because every member of scoeity
> would be a high-adept!! If only it was this easy!!

The Greeks, at the height of their civilization, had something similar with
the Eleusinian Mysteries. Different rites, same concept. It is commonly
known that the Greeks invented democracy. But what isn't as commonly known
is that it was only initiates of the Lesser Mysteries who were permitted to
vote. In other words, it was only First Order initiates who were permitted
to vote. Now *that* is an interesting concept... in a smaller country, in a
different time, and with a singular, centralized leadership of the Order.

> Adeptship is a high-grade of attainment. Adeptship is about realizing
> the fundamental UNITY underlying all life.

Yes, I think that's a fair assessment of what the G.D. (technically, the old
R.R. et A.C.) 5=6 would cnvey, even at its "introductory" level. It's also a
common characteristic of the 2=9 in the A.'.A.'..

> So, the next time you read
> about someone who was a 5=6, and yet you all read about how they were
> engaged in magical attacks against other "adepts", you can rest
> assured, that these people are NOT ADEPTS.

Well, the least you can say, objectively, is that they are in direct
violation of their 0=0 oath!

> Adepts are not going to act like complete infants attacking other people.

Oh, c'mon, Adepts are still people. They aren't Masters. They have not shed
the personality's hold. And, if new to their adepthood, are just discovering
a whole new layer of what lies in the basement of their own "house."

Consider that in the Abra-Melin system, as written, the first task of the
new Adept was to name and confront each of the catalogued 'demons' in turn,
aided by the presence of the H.G.A. Separate from any other consideration of
what this means literally, it is a damn fine expression of what is newly
opened up to the new full adept -- in the genuine, not just ceremonial,
sense -- and of what lies ahead of them. Some infantilism will occassionally
pop up. But, I agree, it isn't behavior becoming the standard to which the
adept will have committed himself or herself.

> Yet.. the Golden Dawn was
> riddled with this type of "adeptii"... Funny thing is, you do not hear
> much about Eastern (ie: Indian) adepts attacking one another... wonder
> why??

Poorer record keeping.

> Aleister Crowley made claims to the grade of 9=2, and 10=1. He attained
> the grade of 9=2 by crucifying a toad (frog)... it certainly is strange
> as to how some of these "grades" are attained.

That single act was part of a many months process. It had a particular
meaning. Others who have crucified amphibians have not become 9=2 -- though
some have claimed it. 

> I have never read of Bennett being a 6=5.

Agreed. The 6=5 wasn't worked prior to his leaving England. Crowley, years
later, despite his respect for Bennett, only referred to him as Very
Honoured Frater, meaning that Crowley only regarded him as a 5=6.

> The occult teaching says, that when a soul
> attains to adeptship, it is characterized by the unfoldment of wonder-
> working powers (called "siddhis" in Yoga). These people can heal
> cripples, perform tangible materializations, evoke spirits to visible
> appearance, foretell the future, etc..

What siddhis manifest are unique to the karma and necessity of the
individual. I've known a very few authentic 6=5s (in the A.'.A.'. sense -- I
know three personally at this moment), and have known *of* a very few others
(historically). All are capable of performing precisely those miracles which
their Work and dharma require them to perform. They generally do this almost
despite themselves and without realizing they are doing it. None of them
seems particularly interested in any other miracles, and certainly aren't
interested in showing off for the crowds. I have actually seen one or the
other of them perform most of the things you mention in your list (I've
never seen one "heal a cripple on the spot"), as well as miscellaneous small
things like levitation, altering one physical object into another at a
moment's notice, astrally dialoguing the near-dead through the decision to
return to their bodies and live, etc. -- when necessity really demanded it.
But, while these made cool stories at the time, they do not interest me
nearly as much as the more subtle things that look as though they occur
simply miraculously in the course of nature, and aren't particularly
discernible at all unless viewed as part of a pattern over time.

> When was the last time you ever heard of an "adept" doing anything
> other than merely being a participant in an occult ritual, or
> alternatively, just offer empty words from the safety of an airchair??

See the above.

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