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To: alt.magick From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM (Hsi Wang Mu) Subject: The A.'.A.'. (9408.the-aa-.hwm2) Date: 49940812 Quoting: |gpeters@netcom.com (Gregory Peters) |>Hsi Wang Mu |Perhaps it would help me understand where you are coming from if you |answered a few questions. Ok, but realize that I don't claim to represent anyone but my own, meager, ignorant self and my experience. |What do you mean by A.'.A.'.? Usually when I speak of the AA I am asking people like you questions about the claims which you are making, either publically or in private. I have noticed that Crowley has written a fair amount on the subject and so I will sometimes refer to his concept 'the AA'. I am not sure if the name precedes Crowley, though I think I've read at least one viewpoint that it does. When reading Crowley I interpreted him to be referring to many things at once when speaking of the AA. I found that his words applied not only to a potential physical order, a sort of chain of initiates (and this was long before I truly understood the implications of _Liber LXI_), but also to what has been called by Case the 'Invisible Rosicrucian Order' as well as what has been referred to as the 'Body of Christ' by some mystics. This apparently incorporates the concept of the Great White Brotherhood (GWB), in that Crowley's(?) 'Secret Chiefs' (SC) seem rather directly parallel if not identical. I imagine (perhaps foolishly) that the Christian mystics who understood the nature of the Body of Christ (BoC) would have used different terminology, perhaps 'Guardian Angels' or merely 'Angels' to describe the same August Administration. |What is your understanding or conception of the Order? This is a very broad question, and so I can only touch on some of the main points. I think that Crowley gives an adequate description of the AA within his 'One Star in Sight'. I've peered at this doc a few times and enjoyed its ambiguity with respect to referent. I don't have one 'understanding or conception' of the Order. I think that like the phrase 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law', all interpretations of it are true if but the reader be illuminated. I do not know that incoherent interpretations, however, are truly worth consideration. All this said, for myself I can only say that I know only my superior and that She has not yet instructed me as to the specific structure of the Order or its history. I understand that, while She calls it by another name ('The Celestial Masters'(CM)), She has indicated that Crowley's description is a valuable one in understanding Her role and position with respect to me. I am instructed that the Order takes many forms, operates within many different dimensions, and instructs in so many different ways that many students don't even know that they are being educated. Some *instructors* don't even know that they are members. |What is your conception of the A.'.A.'. *prior* to Crowley? This of course depends on what you mean by 'the AA'. If you mean Crowley's particular social, physical organization, then I have no idea about its history (or its present state, I might add). This is something I'd like to find out from *you*. If you mean the Order which Crowley was describing that transcends mere social chains, then my understanding is that it has been around as long as humans have formed societies, instructing and reflecting our innermost Mysteries to those who have the eyes to see. Of this latter Order (the Order of Kaos as it manifests in my life), Crowley may well have experienced it, and his writings indicate to me that this is quite possible. I do not have confirmation on the matter and I'm not sure what would for me constitute such confirmation. -- I wish to make it clear that the questions below are very broad and would require entire documents to respond with any adequacy. I think that the questions I have asked you were capable of being answered with simple paragraphs, and that your response with these questions below is a slight dodge on your part. I shall, nevertheless, attempt to express my ignorance to the cosmos.... |And, what is your conception of the Crowley/Jones manifestation or |interpretation of A.'.A.'.? I know very little about it. I am presuming here that you mean the social organization initiated by Crowley. I don't really know about much about Achad and would love to hear more. I gather (from recent interviews with AAmembers, out of which I may make a series of articles) that Crowley is purported to have initiated several people for a social AA. This is what I figured you were talking about and what I'd like to know more about generally. I'd hoped that you'd also have understood the more metaphorical understanding of the AA (as the GWB and BoC). Perhaps you did. |What is your interpretation of: _Liber 185_, _Liber 13_, _One Star in |Sight_, and what do you feel their relationship or relevance is to |A.'.A.'. (specifically, the Crowley/Jones A.'.A.'.) I will not give an evaluation of these documents here. It is too great a task to seriously analyze them. I will say that I'm not sure I've ever read _Liber CLXXXV_, since I can't find it in my library, and have not spent much time scouring _Liber XIII_ and so am sure I don't have a full comprehension of that document. This is why I say I am a poor student where the AA is concerned. Often my studies proceed from interested preview to interested interview (what is happening with you and others now and has been for several years) to serious study and analysis. Too many times I've attempted serious study without the pertinent documents at hand. Eventually I'd like to see an article on the breakdown of the organization of the Celestial Masters from old taoist sources, for example, in order to compare and contrast. As for the relevance of Crowley's writings on the AA, as I have said above I think it all depends what sort of AA you are talking about. You seem rather set on the CJAA (Crowley/Jones). Fine. As I said, I don't know much about it and would like to know more. I don't think that what Crowley wrote is necessarily true regarding the AA with which he may have become involved (i.e. what I'd call the AA/GWB/BoC/CM). He could have got some particulars wrong. I'd imagine that he could set into motion any sort of social order that he liked, however, and so the CJAA may well reflect all of the elements that he laid out in the documents you mention. |If you would indulge me a little with answering these questions, maybe |I'll get a clue ;) At least I will be better able to determine where our |definitions do and do not correspond. I have 'indulged' you now, and I hope that you will go back and address each of my questions that I put to you earlier (preferrably restating them so that I can see what you are answering). My method with people who claim to be members of the AA is to challenge from one perspective, then another (i.e. from the perspective of the AA being the CJAA or the perspective that it is the GWB/BoC/CM). I do this in part because I wish to know precisely what the individual is talking about (you'd be surprised how many people that claim to be 'members of the AA' don't know anything but Crowley's writings, for example). I also wish to know how much of the CJAA conforms to the alternative, so I am not specifically being manipulative or 'silly'. I truly wish to know more about any organization which associates in any way with Crowley's writings or with other people's writings on any of the orgs which I am instructed are identical to it on some level. Your critique of my ignorant offering here is welcomed. I am sure that my suspicions and gleanings regarding the Celestial Masters is imperfect and incomplete. As before, I am instructed to take nobody's word at face value, to seriously question where the AA is concerned, and to make as much of it public as possible in conformity to my vows. Do as you please, for love is the law. Mu tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
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