a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


The A.'.A.'.

To: alt.magick
From: (Hsi Wang Mu)
Subject: Re: The A.'.A.'. (9406.the-aa-.hwm)
Date: 49940609

Quoting: |Christeos Pir and |>Hsi Wang Mu

|What you've called "GWB/AA/MBC" is something that I've conceived of as
|being pretty much as described: that is, a spiritual current or influence
|(directed ultimately by the Divine or Spiritualizing Force, and guided
|-so some say- by beings both incarnate and discarnate) concerned with
|increasing the spiritual or divinizing evolution. I'm phrasing this poorly,
|but it's as close as I can get offhand. I'm no writer, just a poor
|'Prentice Mage.

Thanks for your expression and your effort.

|> Presently my intuition dictates that the AA is a very important mneme
|> with many incarnations in various cultures and ages.

|Yes, I've already agreed with this.

Thank you.

|> I am looking, however, for anyone who would like to represent the AA
|> itself, someone who will firmly and plainly shout: 
|> 	"I am of the Celestial Masters!  I am an immortal being 
|> 	 whose depth and complexity you shall not perceive in the 
|> 	 short duration which you live and die!"

|..._I_ am of the Celestial Masters,
|and am an immortal being etc... So what? So are you, and so is my boss, 
|who's an asshole. BFD.

Great.  Now, what do you *mean* by 'immortal being'?  Are you saying that
you will live forever?  This is the literal meaning of 'immortal' - 'not
subject to death'.  What else could you mean by it?  I sometimes feel as
if I may live forever or that there is an aspect of me which is eternal,
yet I cannot yet be sure of this.  How do you come to this assumption?

This seems to fly in the face of your comments that the AA/GWB/MBC (and
CM - Celestial Masters) is a *spiritual force*/etc., as do the comments
below about the IO - the True and Invisible Rosicrucian Order - by Case.

|> You say that this latter is false.  Please substantiate your claim
|> by bringing forth one individual who speaks for the AA/GWB/MBC.

|"Speaks for"? What makes you think that any one individual can, or would,
|speak for the whole?

Well, there are these people who equate the COT and TOT with the AA, you
see, and there are some who speak for these groups, it appears.  I only
wanted to find someone who would claim to know something about the AA/*
and its characteristics by virtue of *membership*.

|> Pardon me?  Of which order do you speak which calls itself the AA?
|> Please point me in their direction, or even toward someone who claims
|> to know someone who is in the AA/GWB/MBC (is this a summoning?).

|Still confusing the two: the sempiternal and the manifestations.

I've been reading some on this subject (specifically with respect to
Rosicrucian and Theosophical perspectives - Case and Fortune/Misc.)
and here are a couple of quotes I've stumbled across:

"The Rosicrucian Order is like the old definition of the city of Boston:
 it is a state of mind.  One *becomes* a Rosicrucian: one does not *join*
 the Rosicrucians."


"Let none suppose that because the Rosicrucian Order is invisible it
 is composed of discarnate intelligences.  Neither are its members
 supermen inhabiting a region vaguely designated by the term 'higher
 planes.'  The Order is invisible because it has no external
 organization.  It is not composed of invisible beings.  Its members
 are men and women incarnate on earth in physical bodies.  They are
 invisible to ordinary eyes because the minds behind those eyes
 cannot recognize the marks of a true Rosicrucian."

From: _The True and Invisible Rosicrucian Order_, by Paul Foster Case,
 Samuel Weiser, 1981; p. 5.

Are the AA and the IO Rosicrucia different organizations, described
differently by different people yet the same org, or something else?

|...the _manifested_ order under discussion is the
|order founded by Crowley and Jones, written of by Crowley in many works
|-especially One Star In Sight-, and written of by Fuller, Regardie, and
|others, including, most recently, Jim Eshelman. Note that his book says
|it's about the A.'.A.'., NOT TOT or COT.

Ok, and I'd like to know where and how this supposed org is *manifested*.
See, I'm not so sure that it is manifested at all, and lots of people 
have claimed that it is has mixed up the TOT/COT and the like.  People
mistake, continually, the Outer for the Inner, the Order with what the
TOT/COT are 'in service to'.  

No, I have not read Eshelman's book, though I may well do that some day.
Crowley didn't found the AA, he described it.  Or is there some Order which
*was* founded by Crowley?  This is the issue I'd like to see discussed
(and cc'd to my emailbox please! :>).

|> ...Please substantiate this in some way.  Tell us why you
|> think this, what method brought you to this tentative conclusion,
|> and how you are going about (if so) testing it further.

|My position any clearer now? If not... [shrug]

I think so.  You base it on personal experience but not on direct
involvement with a physical organization calling itself the AA, you
think that the AA/* is a spiritual force, etc., and would rather not
be bothered analyzing the specifics of the Order.  I would, but only
because I keep hearing wild claims and confused statements about
something which is probably one of the more important concepts in the
whole of Western Occultism.

Thanks for putting up with my very complicated and sometimes confused
questions.  I'm going to continue studying the AA and asking people
questions who think they know something about it.  There is a lot of
silly rumor and vague fantasy that passes for scholarship and I aim
to expose it or bring it to light in some way.

|Christeos Pir
|Fr. Vitriol Io, O.T.O.

Hsi Wang Mu

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races