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The A.'.A.'.

To: alt.magick
From: tyagi@HouseofKaos.Abyss.com (Hsi Wang Mu)
Subject: Re: The A.'.A.'. (9406.the-aa-.hwm)
Date: 49940609

Quoting: |Christeos Pir and |>Hsi Wang Mu

|What you've called "GWB/AA/MBC" is something that I've conceived of as
|being pretty much as described: that is, a spiritual current or influence
|(directed ultimately by the Divine or Spiritualizing Force, and guided
|-so some say- by beings both incarnate and discarnate) concerned with
|increasing the spiritual or divinizing evolution. I'm phrasing this poorly,
|but it's as close as I can get offhand. I'm no writer, just a poor
|'Prentice Mage.

Thanks for your expression and your effort.


|> Presently my intuition dictates that the AA is a very important mneme
|> with many incarnations in various cultures and ages.

|Yes, I've already agreed with this.

Thank you.


|> I am looking, however, for anyone who would like to represent the AA
|> itself, someone who will firmly and plainly shout: 
|> 
|> 	"I am of the Celestial Masters!  I am an immortal being 
|> 	 whose depth and complexity you shall not perceive in the 
|> 	 short duration which you live and die!"

|..._I_ am of the Celestial Masters,
|and am an immortal being etc... So what? So are you, and so is my boss, 
|who's an asshole. BFD.

Great.  Now, what do you *mean* by 'immortal being'?  Are you saying that
you will live forever?  This is the literal meaning of 'immortal' - 'not
subject to death'.  What else could you mean by it?  I sometimes feel as
if I may live forever or that there is an aspect of me which is eternal,
yet I cannot yet be sure of this.  How do you come to this assumption?

This seems to fly in the face of your comments that the AA/GWB/MBC (and
CM - Celestial Masters) is a *spiritual force*/etc., as do the comments
below about the IO - the True and Invisible Rosicrucian Order - by Case.


|> You say that this latter is false.  Please substantiate your claim
|> by bringing forth one individual who speaks for the AA/GWB/MBC.

|"Speaks for"? What makes you think that any one individual can, or would,
|speak for the whole?

Well, there are these people who equate the COT and TOT with the AA, you
see, and there are some who speak for these groups, it appears.  I only
wanted to find someone who would claim to know something about the AA/*
and its characteristics by virtue of *membership*.


|> Pardon me?  Of which order do you speak which calls itself the AA?
|> Please point me in their direction, or even toward someone who claims
|> to know someone who is in the AA/GWB/MBC (is this a summoning?).

|Still confusing the two: the sempiternal and the manifestations.

I've been reading some on this subject (specifically with respect to
Rosicrucian and Theosophical perspectives - Case and Fortune/Misc.)
and here are a couple of quotes I've stumbled across:

"The Rosicrucian Order is like the old definition of the city of Boston:
 it is a state of mind.  One *becomes* a Rosicrucian: one does not *join*
 the Rosicrucians."

and

"Let none suppose that because the Rosicrucian Order is invisible it
 is composed of discarnate intelligences.  Neither are its members
 supermen inhabiting a region vaguely designated by the term 'higher
 planes.'  The Order is invisible because it has no external
 organization.  It is not composed of invisible beings.  Its members
 are men and women incarnate on earth in physical bodies.  They are
 invisible to ordinary eyes because the minds behind those eyes
 cannot recognize the marks of a true Rosicrucian."

From: _The True and Invisible Rosicrucian Order_, by Paul Foster Case,
 Samuel Weiser, 1981; p. 5.
_____________________________________________________ 

Are the AA and the IO Rosicrucia different organizations, described
differently by different people yet the same org, or something else?


|...the _manifested_ order under discussion is the
|order founded by Crowley and Jones, written of by Crowley in many works
|-especially One Star In Sight-, and written of by Fuller, Regardie, and
|others, including, most recently, Jim Eshelman. Note that his book says
|it's about the A.'.A.'., NOT TOT or COT.

Ok, and I'd like to know where and how this supposed org is *manifested*.
See, I'm not so sure that it is manifested at all, and lots of people 
have claimed that it is has mixed up the TOT/COT and the like.  People
mistake, continually, the Outer for the Inner, the Order with what the
TOT/COT are 'in service to'.  

No, I have not read Eshelman's book, though I may well do that some day.
Crowley didn't found the AA, he described it.  Or is there some Order which
*was* founded by Crowley?  This is the issue I'd like to see discussed
(and cc'd to my emailbox please! :>).


|> ...Please substantiate this in some way.  Tell us why you
|> think this, what method brought you to this tentative conclusion,
|> and how you are going about (if so) testing it further.

|My position any clearer now? If not... [shrug]

I think so.  You base it on personal experience but not on direct
involvement with a physical organization calling itself the AA, you
think that the AA/* is a spiritual force, etc., and would rather not
be bothered analyzing the specifics of the Order.  I would, but only
because I keep hearing wild claims and confused statements about
something which is probably one of the more important concepts in the
whole of Western Occultism.


Thanks for putting up with my very complicated and sometimes confused
questions.  I'm going to continue studying the AA and asking people
questions who think they know something about it.  There is a lot of
silly rumor and vague fantasy that passes for scholarship and I aim
to expose it or bring it to light in some way.


|Christeos Pir
|Fr. Vitriol Io, O.T.O.

Hsi Wang Mu
tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com

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