a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.moderated,alt.magick,alt.magick.order
From: (nigris (333))
Subject: Thelemic Criticism of AC's Ideas (was Letter to the Editor...)
Date: 16 Nov 1996 23:30:19 -0800

49961112 AA1  Hail Satan!


Tim 'the Wizard' Maroney :
#># While Crowley was very proud of
#># his interminable cabalistic noodlings and his idle juxtapositions of
#># symbols with which he had only a passing familiarity, his speculations
#># have had no significant impact on the fields of comparative religion or
#># the psychology of mysticism.

uncited (PStuart I suspect):
#> Hmm.  Documentation?  Your opinion only?

Tim Maroney 
# Can you find any Crowley references in search abstracts and dissertations 
# in these fields? I can't. I don't recall any scholar outside occultism 
# ever using Crowley as a reference for anything. If you know of some 
# influence his work has had on comparative religion or psychology, I'd 
# certainly be interested in following your references.

comparative religion: Aidan Kelly (cites Crowley as major inspiration to Wicca)
psychology/mysticism: Timothy Leary? (less sure about that one)
 + esoteric politics: Robert Anton Wilson (lots within Cosmic Trigger + Leary)

# I'd love to see any references to significant inquiry into the 
# assumptions behind Crowley's system in any Thelemic book or zine. 

this is what I've been watching for for years and have set about creating
them myself as regards 'fratribus nigris', 'sin' and 'lust for result' 
(refs upon request), in essay form online.  

I did see some nice work within 'Starfire' (discontinued), and there was 
an occasional touch in the 'OZone' newsletters I've seen.  I have seen a 
little (not much) in old 'Thelema Lodge Newsletters' (some of Br. Bill's 
writings do present interpretations but not such an overall analysis as 
to be called 'significant inquiry', and there have been similar expressions 
without critical review in 'Magical Link'.  

the old 'Email Without Tears' (online pub) did contain some of my essays 
which attempted meager inquiries as I've mentioned above.  occasional 
magazines like that of 'Mezla' and those of Chaotes (Chaos International, 
Thanateros) and Satanists sometimes reference Crowley but do not usually 
delve too deeply into a serious analysis of his ideas, from my perusal of 
early issues.

'In The Continuum' (at least within most of the first 4 volumes I have at
my disposal) glosses most everything or keeps to conventional ideas except 
when containing writings by Crowley himself or letters to which the Editor 
was privileged.

I have seen few 'Thelemic' books or zines beyond this and would love to
hear other people's review of their contents in relation to this very
important issue.

#The only ones I can think of are in Kenneth Grant, and he's pretty loony. 

I've scanned or used for research many of Grant's texts and find him very
inspirational, if in serious want of editor/herald.  He does indeed attempt
(at times incredibly unconvincingly) an analysis of Crowley's work, his 
leaps of logic not being always very easy to follow, especially when he
begins to use his gematria as a fulcrum.

#(Rodney is creative in his practices but doesn't question basic 
#assumptions in his book; DuQuette and del Campo are straight party line, 
#as is Beta.) I'm not interested in the usual bickering about trivialities 
#like how long cookies need to be baked or whether you have to pay forty 
#dollars before you can be a Priestess; I'm interested in people asking 
#questions which bear on the philosophical ground of the system: the 
#existence of True Will, the conflict between nominalism and idealism, the 
#effectiveness of magic, the validity of astrology, the suspicious 
#circumstances under which the Book of the Law was received, and so on. 

these topics occasionally arise here and in other online forums, but they
are usually not deeply delved and are short-lived of participation (perhaps
with good reason -- few are really simultaneously magicians, writers,
reporters and philosophers).

#I've never seen any of these issues raised in print; what I do see 
#constantly enacts the assumption that we are all of one mind about these 

I must admit that the little I have examined within Thelemic publications
does appear to fall prey to precisely the weakness here pointed out by the


nigris (333)
see  and  call: 408/2-666-SLUG!!!
 ----  (emailed replies may be posted)  ----  CC public replies to email  ---- 
 * * * Asphalta Cementia Metallica Polymera Coyote La Cuckaracha Humana * * * 

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races