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Taoism Definitions

To: alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.misc,alt.philosophy.taoism
From: (xiwangmu)
Subject: Taoism Definitions (was Masters? Sages?)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:53:54 GMT

50000618 Vom
>...Are we Daoists if we don't worship Lao Tze or Zhuang Tze? 
>I like Zhuang but I don't like Lao. So, am I a Daoist? 

graduated assemblage ...

	card-carrying part of official Taoist Order
	member of Taoist religious group
	participant in Taoist-affiliate philosophy forum
	born to parents who identify as Taoists
	Immortal, god or some other Taoist Worthy
	child of the Mother of 10000
	Sage and Master
	tea-drinking hermit laughing at all these categories
	dedicated Taoist ceremonialist, magician or priest
	dedicated Taoist philosopher, mystic, or alchemist
	aspirant to the Way

do you fit in here somewhere? the last one could include lots of people.
ultimately knowledge is impossible to obtain except by violence.

>I don't think it is important to have other people 'recognise' me as a

it is for social functions.

>believing all the 'right' stuff. 

it is for social membership of some types.

>I'm reading on this internet
>thing just because I feel that my view are more or less synonomous with
>SOME Daoist views... 

I like flavours.

>although after being here the impression 'Daoism'
>has on me as any form of homogenous institution is totally destroyed. 

very good!

>I guess it's so hard to find people thinking on your wavelength even if
>you go to such a specialised discussion.

keep looking, comrade!

>While I'm here, do any of you Dao men/women out there have a good
>explanation of the 'transcendal' reality (the phenonemonologic) and
>the 'chaotic core' reality (you know... the original state... dao)? 

	two-reality or two-truth speculation tends to fall into
	discernment based on analogy to perceptual and deductive
	or at least logical knowledge-origination. this occurs
	in many philosophic systems. Indians have an illustration
	with a rope and a snake wherein the road-walker sees
	what she takes to be a snake and then discovers that it
	is a snake. the initial perception symbolizes the
	'ordinary' or 'perception without reflection', the
	'Limited Truth' of India's great logician, Nagarjuna.
	the later conclusion (rope not snake) symbolizes an
	arrival at apprehension of a deeper or more profound
	truth (Nagarjuna's 'Ultimate Truth'; I'm cobbling a
	couple of different schools together here on purpose
	to illustrate a general point). 

typically the "transcendental" reality is that which is
associated with the rope apprehension, the Ultimate or

	the 'chaotic core' most likely refers to a kind
	of emanationist Taoist cosmology whereby either
	one may return to an origination or to a state
	approximating the non-thought-circumscribed
	'Way' itself. typically the process to arrive
	at this origination-state is either not 
	described at all or provided an alchemical,
	mystical, or moral technique for reaching it.
	those who so arrive (in the West we might
	call them Adepts or Masters) are often seen
	as beyond ordinary experience (as with the
	Immortals), as hidden from the sight of the
	very deluded who seek to join them, or as
	participants within the Taoist social group
	(as is the case with many religious cults).

I should note that I have not seen this phrase "chaotic
core" before and am just guessing as to what you are
asking and the proper response based upon my studies.

comments welcome.

-- ; ; 
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