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To: alt.satanism,alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer)
Subject: Satanism and Magick (was magick introduction)
Date: 29 Mar 1998 13:13:11 -0500

49980331 aa2 Hail Satan!

magick (unless it is of a specific 'Satanic' variety) is not really
a subject of discussion that is part of Zazas-L.  I would refer you
to other elists (such as [thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com]...) or to 
Usenet (alt.magick and its subgroups).

see the alt.magick FAQ for more on it too:

		http://www.luckymojo.com/altmagickfaq/

or nagasiva's alt.magick FAQ at:

		http://www.luckymojo.com/namfaq.html

# I'd call my belief something near Satanism and I'm not intended 
# to practise magick at the moment. I just want to discover it's
# aims, theory, etc.  I've read and looked at some FAQs but I 
# couldn't find the answers I'm looking for.

magick appears to be associated with Satanism on account of its
integrity to the condemnation scheme of conventional religions,
in the West that surrounding the RCatholic Church and its intent
to retain a monopoly on religious miracles and theurgy while
classifying its competition in slanderous ways ('magic' and
'witchcraft' have both been used in this way as has 'black 
magic' when the simple 'magic' didn't suffice).

I think it is for this reason that it is integrated to modern
Satanism also, just as Wicca (predominantly an attempt to create
a goddess-based religion) associated with magic, spells and 
witchcraft in its popularization and subsequent generations 
after Gardner.
 

# As possible practisers I've read some FAQs regarding magick of 
# Satanists, Pagans, Wiccas, Druids, Thelemites,... 

I've never seen a FAQ on magick from any of these people.  there
are portions of FAQs which address this subject, but generally
few have a grasp of the intricacies of metaphysics or history
(or the fantasies concocted to elaborate these) sufficient to
really do the subject justice.  even the alt.magick FAQ is but
a noise-reducer, intending not to answer questions so much as
point out a broader perspective than the newbie usually brings
to the discussion.


# but the explanations of their aims were quite general expect 
# of Satanists and Thelemites. 

I'm finding it difficult to parse your English, but will try to
respond nonetheless.  Thelemites and Satanists are, from what
I can see, kindred cultures influenced by Aleister Crowley and
a host of philosophers surrounding the development and exercise
of the will (a complex concept which figures into the practice
of magick for many theoreticians trying to explain it).

most people in these cultures are not writers, and therefore
have little skill in expressing their (sometimes quite deep)
understanding about magick and other important principles
in ways that do more than echo Crowley or pay tribute to his
greater artistic genius.  I will not myself go into the subject
here (because it is off-topic until it is specifically Satanic)
except to say that general descriptions are more common because
they are easier to put across without controversy.


# Can someone give me just a few examples of what they are 
# trying to achieve ? (e.g. healing, achieving personal goals, 
# discovering any kinds of truths, etc.)

there is little restriction on what may be *attemped* using
the tool of magick (in whatever form this magick may in fact 
appear).  the intended achievements are not all that diverse
in comparison to the cultural flesh that is attached to the
common skeletal principles.

Satanic magick (to which I would prefer to turn the discussion)
has as varied objectives, but probably more often centers on
the betterment of the individual mage (wealth, power, fame, sex,
love, the usual) or the benefit of someone who is well-regarded 
by same (i.e. healing a loved one or oneself, protecting kindred 
who feel at risk, etc.).

one of the things I've enjoyed about LaVey has been his ability
to take what was really going on with social and ritual systems,
integrate them to condemnatory rhetoric, and promote them as
novelties.  he appears to have adopted the Hermetic 'low magic'/
'high magic' model in his division of 'Lesser' and 'Greater'
Black Magick practices.

from memory (some teen Satanists appear to have stolen my copy
of _The Church of Satan_, hehehe, very shifty of them ;>), I
think Lesser Black Magick is associated with manipulation of 
just about any sort, from the emotional to the physical, and 
Greater Black Magick concerns the personal empowerment and
dis-indoctrination of the mage.  emotion seems to have been
very important to LaVey as a focus of concentrated power (as
it is to many mages but not all), and his style seems to share
many features with the classic grimoires and the 
nouveaureligious rites that have come after it (e.g. Wiccan).
perhaps these shared features are a part of *all* magical
rites, but this is not my impression from scant research.

my *own* magical activies of a Satanic character of course
focus on the service to Satan (wild nature), and this has
included a long history of indulgent escapades resulting in
my transformation over time, my blood pact with Satan as the
personification of wilderness, and my current project of
marshalling the Army of Darkness in defense of nonhuman species.

the diabolic figures prominently in the latter project,
(in particular that reflected through grimoires like the
Goetia, but also from anywhere else I can find good raw data
on the spirits which are anti-Christian -- demons).  I've
noticed that some other Satanists find value in pursuing
this line of magical rite also (playing with or integrating
the shadow, paying tribute to the wrathful aspects of the
psyche and human nature, etc.).
 

# To get some informations I've read the biography of Crowley 
# "The Beast 666" (I stopped somewhere in the first half) 

you might check out the Beast's autohagiography, titled _The
Confessions of Aleister Crowley_ in its Arkana publication
(eds. Symonds/Grant) if you want greater detail and a first-
person perspective.  

it should be said that some don't regard Crowley as a Satanist,
though this is a difficult argument to sustain (esp a de facto
status) given his obvious obsessions with the Dark Lord.
 

# and e.g. when invoking "Aiwass" who told him the verses if 
# the Book of the Law - how could he be sure to follow this 
# laws and that they are his truth ?

hehe, from his writings even *Crowley* struggled with that
one, though I suspect he inserts such a struggle in order to
convince the more skeptical reader that he is in fact the
Prophet of the New Aeon.

in the final analysis it is up to the individual to decide
both whether there is any value in presuming these religious
conceptions to be true (about the Evul Book, for example,
and Crowley's role with respect to the New Age) and how to
go about sorting sensationalism from profundity, and I think
that most Satanists tend to downplay this portion of
Satanic history (possible exception being those who wish to
capitalize on it through traditional connection, such as
the Aquino lineage of the Temple of Set after _The Book of
Coming Forth by Night_ if I remember its title -- a secret
document available to Temple members).


# ...When discovering something like the "True Will" or the 
# "Sense in Life", etc. how can you ever be sure you've found it. 

certainty is a luxury few who have trek with wisdom will abide.


# I think that this digging in yourself can bring out anything 
# of your deep feelings or thoughts. So this sounds to me like if
# experienced psychologists would be the most (and perhaps only) 
# successful magicians.

that would depend on what was meant by each ('psychologst'/'magician').
alot of psychologists want to deal with OTHER people's problems and
leave the self-digging to their psychoanalyst cohorts.  it is quite
possibly true that a great number of those who become involved with
psychology do so because they have deep problems to be worked out.

the 'success' of a magician seems to depend either upon largely
invisible results or upon shrewd advertizing and propaganda.  the
most famous and powerful mages were often tools of the wealthy
and/or on the run due to their charlatanry (some died in prisons).

as publishing becomes more and more the ability of the commons,
so too is it popular to enter into the hue of 'success' through
publishing ventures, selling books, promoting correspondence
courses, doing lecture circuits, generally encouraging the
explosion of arcane celebrity.  whether this is truly 'success'
should be a matter of keen debate, since simultaneously it could
be seen as a kind of fiction and as an expression of will in the
gradually more accessible media channels.
 

# What are the differences between Thelema and Scientology ?

this I leave for those of Thelema93-L or Usenet, since it is
not a subject directly related to Satanism.

blessed beast!
________________________________________________________________________
nocTifer: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com  ---  http://www.abyss.com/tokus