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To: zazas-l@hollyfeld.org (ZAZAS-L Satanist Elist)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 12:09:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (Z) Re: 'Baphomet' (CoS +)
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer)

[Orig-To: Satanist-L@necronomi.com -- I presently have no connection to Usenet
   aside from posting to Zazas-L; cc Usenet responses you want me to see]
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
49971008 aa2 Hail Satan!  	   (permission to repost received from CHLow)

Clifford Hartleigh Low :
# Personally, I don't think he put a tremendous amount of thought into it. 

I'm not sure about this.  the lemniscate/double-cross is alchemically
associated with Sulphur, and the masons appear to have at least partly
provided a similar association with what *they* called 'the symbol of
Baphomet'.  I doubt the two graphics (mason/CoSatanist) related to this
term are the same, but can't be sure as yet.


# Afterward, he may have embellished the meaning, but an amount of the 
# material from the early days of CoS seems inconsistant. A lot of it, I 
# believe, has to do with the fact that much of the imagery was deemed 
# either entirely theatrics, a kind of inkblot which the organization could 
# co-opt, or had some inner mystery they'd grasp at some later point.

this does seem likely, though there appear to be some consistencies from
which the co-option might work to greater achievement.


# Also, _a_ leviathan is something massive, ponderous; a juggernaut. If one 
# were to deem the Baph seal to be a kind of sigilization or 
# manifesto-in-imagery, it might suggest that LaVey wished CoS to be a 
# juggernaut-like force toppling the idols of Christianity.
# 
# But the likliest answer is the most simple. I think the designer tried 
# several different combinations of five hebrew characters relating to 
# Satanic gobbledigook, and LVITN simply _looked_ most sinister. 

"the designer" being the operative phrase, yes.  I don't think it was
LaVey, and Aquino's assertions appear to bear this out.


# As for the Levi vs Templar thing... the goat imagery associated with 
# Baphomet comes from Levi. Previous to him, the goat wasn't so essentially 
# associated with Baphomet, except in a grimoire or two. The goat certainly 
# doesn't go back to the Templar days.

at least Pike associates a goat's head with 'Baphomet'.  I doubt that Pike
would have derived his assertions from Levi but can't be sure.


# The origin of the name Baphomet indicates how distant goats and the 
# Templars were. It was the official opinion of the Church that the 
# mysterious Saracens did not worship some prophet, but in fact secretly 
# adored a trinity of demons known as Apollyon, Termagant, and Baphomet. 

I'd like to know from where you found this information, with a quotation
I might use in reference if possible.  thanks.


# Baphomet probably descends from Mahomet-- an antiquated rendering of 
# Mohammed.

that is my understanding also, per RPKnight.


# Much of the slanders thrown upon witches and heretics were magnified 
# regarding the Saracens. The accusation against the Saracens of 
# head-worship and sodomy were specifically chosen to indicate that they 
# had "gone native" and begun to incorporate the rituals of the 
# demon-worshipping Moslems. 

and yet there was no reason (except grave misunderstanding or slander)
to associate the Muslims with head-worshipping (there may be some real
substance behind an acceptance of sodomy), as Muslims traditionally
eshew ALL iconography.  therefore something is awry either with the
source of this information or with the Templars who were used as examples.

of course, like the Inquisitory information concerning "witches", it does
appear that a great deal concerning the Templars was fabricated as the
result of torture.  such sources should be considered fairly useless for
historical analysis.


# To scare crusaders away from listening to the words of Mohammed, and have 
# them choose death before conversion, the Church told crusaders that 
# Mahomet was not a prophet but a demon who had taken human form. What 
# person raised in the Christian tradition, also fanatical enough to travel 
# thousands of miles for a braindead holy war, would willingly listen to 
# the decietful words of a demon? 

this is likely, though I have rarely seen it stated so plainly in academic
texts (probably because the evidence is scant and there is some bias toward
the Christian).


# I think that you're grasping. Demystify and deconstruct a little! That 
# seal was liklier constructed by an out of work artist, or after a weekend 
# of heavy drinking by the early CoS crew, than intense 
# hyperintellectualism which you hint towards. You're visualizing a kind of 
# ineffable brilliance that's due a prophet. Consider that the Baphomet 
# seal was as likely a lucky strike or a brain fart than something profound.

neither from what I can tell.  I suspect that what became the CoSatanist
symbol was a masonic invention in part to sow controversy and in part to 
convey alchemical significance.  the most that can be said thusfar is that
it appearred on Bessy's ...text cover.  the elements are identified by 
Aquino as not extending prior to 1931, and Pike's text preceded it by 50 
years or so.

therefore if we really want to get technical there are several pieces
which had origins at different points in history and probably with
different people:

	* the term 'mahomet'; was apparently expressed in trials by
	  Templars or their accusers; it is likely that this term also
	  was used to indicate the prophet 'Muhammad' of Islam.

	* the term 'baphomet'; was used by Levi in _Dogma de la Haute
	  Magie_ (1855), Sir Richard Payne Knight in _Worship of 
	  Priapus_ (1865) and Albert Pike _Morals and Dogma..._ (1875).
	  beyond this I am unaware of previous usage beyond 'mahomet';
	  by Levi and others it is given several originations, inclusive
	  of cryptologic (backwards acronym) and Greek (Bapho-Metis),
	  though these may well be later fabrications.

	* the goat's head artwork; per MAquino: "The artwork for the 
	  current emblem's goat/pentagram first appears in Oswald 
	  Wirth, _La fran-maconnerie rendue intelligible a ces adeptes 
	   - II. 'Le compagnon'_, Paris: Derry-Livres, 1931, page #60."

	* the current CoSatanist symbol; appears on Maurice Bessy's
	  _A Pictorial History of Magic and the Supernatural_, (1964).

	* the hermaphroditic 'Devil'; this may originate with Levi,
	  who included alot of apparent fabrication as to its origins,
	  in the work mentioned above.

	* the chicken-headed symbol; used by Crowley and identified
	  as 'Baphomet', probably in the early 1900s, may have
	  originated as an alchemical symbol, as it is similar in
	  many respects to the draconic symbol for Mercury which
	  has a bearded face on its breast, three astronomical heads
	  on tentacles above and winged boots.


# I wonder if 
# anybody really even remembers the circumstances under which the seal was 
# constructed or adopted. 

Aquino would probably be in a position to know.  he cites photographs
during the early years wherein Bessy's book was used as a prop for its
cover, and my haus copy confirms this assertion regarding the book.


# If they do, perhaps it's the memory of Anton 
# hiring Pete the corner hippy or a horror movie set designer to come up 
# with a spooky design.

there is a lot of deception afoot.  I'm not sure how much originates with
Anton and how much is the intentional fabrication of others.  TJantsang
and her clones sure don't help matters much, and there is enough
disinformation being generated that a concise history of any of it is
made (conveniently?) difficult to reconstruct.

please indicate whether I may post this elsewhere (Usenet/Zazas-L).
thank you.  blessed beast!
________________________________________________________________________
nocTifer: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com  ---  http://www.abyss.com/tokus
TOKUS-COE Office: 408/2-666-SLUG --- Mother Church (CoE) coe@netcom.com
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