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To: alt.religion.wicca,alt.pagan,alt.satanism From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) Subject: Re: Literary Satanism (was Re: Wiccan "Fluff bunnies" was Re: wiccan; getting e-mail from mad people) Date: 10 Jun 1997 10:35:11 -0700 49970610 aa2 Hail Satan! Kyr@nemoria.dropbear.id.au begins a nice REF on Satanic Sources with authors mentioned as regards "those which feature Satan in a positive light or have been presumed to have done such": Milton _Paradise Lost_ William Blake Lord Byron Shelley Baudelaire my additions: Huysmans Mark Twain I'd like to also begin a list of those whose philosophy has been a major influence on Satanism or been associated with Satan by its *adherents*: Optimists Diderot Rousseau Voltaire David Hume Immanuel Kant De Sade Ducasse Friedrich Nietzsche know any more or their whole names/dates? if need be I'll have to make a research trip to the public library to flesh it out. some musical composers: Beethoven (disharmonics) Paganini Lidst Wagner blessed beast! nocTifer tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com -- (emailed replies may be posted) ------- join the AMT syncretism!!! see http://www.abyss.com/tokus ---------- call: 408/2-666-SLUG!! ------- zombie children have invaded Philadelphia, film at 11 ---------- Path: Supernews!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!cs.uoregon.edu!news.efn.org!garcia.efn.org!kld From: Kerry DelfNewsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.religion.wicca,alt.pagan Subject: Re: Literary Satanism (was Re: Wiccan "Fluff bunnies") Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:17:54 -0700 Organization: Oregon Public Networking Lines: 85 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: garcia.efn.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: kld@garcia.efn.org To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com Xref: Supernews alt.satanism:70532 alt.religion.wicca:73826 alt.pagan:217359 [posted and cc'd] On 10 Jun 1997, nocTifer wrote: > Kyr@nemoria.dropbear.id.au begins a nice REF on Satanic Sources with > authors mentioned as regards "those which feature Satan in a positive > light or have been presumed to have done such": > > Milton _Paradise Lost_ > William Blake > Lord Byron > Shelley > Baudelaire > > > my additions: > > Huysmans > Mark Twain If we're including recent authors, throw in Heinlein (_JOB: A Comedy of Justice_), P.Anthony (_For Love of Evil_), and Anne Rice (_Memnoch the Devil_). > I'd like to also begin a list of those whose philosophy has been a major > influence on Satanism or been associated with Satan by its *adherents*: > > Optimists > Diderot > Rousseau > Voltaire > David Hume > Immanuel Kant > De Sade > Ducasse > Friedrich Nietzsche Shall we throw in "Ragnar Redbeard" here? Or were you referring to the Great Philosophers(tm)? > know any more or their whole names/dates? if need be I'll have to make > a research trip to the public library to flesh it out. some musical > composers: > > Beethoven (disharmonics) > Paganini > Lidst > Wagner Bach, at least his _Toccata & Fugue in D Minor_. Mozart's always been one of my favourite composers, and he certainly led a less than holy life. Benjamin Brittain was an excellent 20th-Century composer, whose use of overlapping and clashing voices (as well as unusual time signatures, such as the 7/8 time used in his _Missa Brevis in D Major(?)_) can be quite disconcerting at least, and inducive of altered states at best. "This Little Babe" from his _Ceremony of Carols_, ironically, is an excellent example of this use of disharmonic overlap -- I call it ironic because the first words sung are "This little babe, so few days old, has come to rifle Satan's hold. All hell doth at his presence quake..." > nocTifer > tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com -K.Delf -----------=Kerry Delf=-------------= =----------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I fear sometimes that I have the ambition of a genius, the eye and ear of a genius, and the talent of a chimneysweep. I go down into the filthy world, I come up black, I scatter the ashes and cinders of my research onto white papers, but what have I got? Paper with black marks all over it." --Orson Scott Card's fictional Honore de Balzac ------------------------------------------------------------------------- EMAILING RESPONSES TO MY USENET POSTS CONSTITUTES PERMISSION TO POST THEM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: Supernews!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.logical.net!news.dal.ca!chebucto.ns.ca!af380 From: af380@chebucto.ns.ca (Norman L. DeForest) Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.religion.wicca,alt.pagan Subject: Re: Literary Satanism (was Re: Wiccan "Fluff bunnies") Followup-To: alt.satanism,alt.religion.wicca,alt.pagan Date: 11 Jun 1997 15:06:26 GMT Organization: Chebucto Community Net Lines: 39 Message-ID: <5nmeti$1a$1@News.Dal.Ca> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: chebucto.ns.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: Supernews alt.satanism:70568 alt.religion.wicca:73853 alt.pagan:217408 Kerry Delf (kld@jersey.uoregon.edu) wrote: : [posted and cc'd] : On 10 Jun 1997, nocTifer wrote: : > Kyr@nemoria.dropbear.id.au begins a nice REF on Satanic Sources with : > authors mentioned as regards "those which feature Satan in a positive : > light or have been presumed to have done such": : > : > Milton _Paradise Lost_ : > William Blake : > Lord Byron : > Shelley : > Baudelaire : > : > : > my additions: : > : > Huysmans : > Mark Twain : If we're including recent authors, throw in Heinlein (_JOB: A Comedy of : Justice_), P.Anthony (_For Love of Evil_), and Anne Rice (_Memnoch : the Devil_). And Steven Brust (_To Reign in Hell_). Norman De Forest af380@chebucto.ns.ca http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~af380/Profile.html (A Speech Friendly Site) ......................................................................... Q. Which is the greater problem in the world today, ignorance or apathy? A. I don't know and I couldn't care less. ......................................................................... Path: Supernews!supernews.com!HSNX.wco.com!news.theriver.com!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!jump.net!grunt.dejanews.com!not-for-mail Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:21:53 -0600 From: clore@columbia-center.org Subject: Re: Literary Satanism (Was Re: Wiccan "fluff bunnies") Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.satanism,alt.religion.wicca Message-ID: <866041254.7970@dejanews.com> Organization: The Ardois-Bonnot Gang X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jun 11 15:00:55 1997 GMT X-Originating-IP-Addr: 198.36.168.12 (ppp09.columbia-center.org) X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.0 (Win95; I) X-Authenticated-Sender: clore@columbia-center.org Lines: 45 Xref: Supernews alt.pagan:217412 alt.satanism:70574 alt.religion.wicca:73856 In article , Kerry Delf wrote: > > Kyr@nemoria.dropbear.id.au begins a nice REF on Satanic Sources with > > authors mentioned as regards "those which feature Satan in a positive > > light or have been presumed to have done such": > > > > Milton _Paradise Lost_ > > William Blake > > Lord Byron > > Shelley > > Baudelaire > > my additions: > > > > Huysmans > > Mark Twain Crashaw's Suspicion of Herod (trans of Marino) -- precursor of Milton. Swinburne. Barbey d'Aurevilly. Lautréamont. Anatole France. Clark Ashton Smith. ---------------------------------------- Dan Clore mailto:clore@columbia-center.org The Website of Lord Weÿrdgliffe http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/index.html Welcome to the Waughters.... The Dan Clore Necronomicon Page http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/necpage.htm Because the true mysteries cannot be profaned.... "Hziulquoigmnzhah" (hziulquoigmnzhah@cykranosh.com) wrote: > Iqhui dlosh odhqlonqh! [if you don't send me a cc of your reply to this post, I might not see it] -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet Path: Supernews!usenet65.supernews.com!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!news.iac.net!news.structured.net!news4.ixa.net!ixa.net!nwnews.wa.com!nwfocus.wa.com!tomato.dussco.com!inter2.interstice.com!op.net!hunter.premier.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!jump.net!grunt.dejanews.com!not-for-mail Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:22:30 -0600 From: Kyr@nemoria.dropbear.id.au Subject: Re: Literary Satanism Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.pagan,alt.religion.wicca Message-ID: <866073625.6404@dejanews.com> Organization: AlienKeys To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jun 12 00:00:30 1997 GMT X-Originating-IP-Addr: 131.170.195.1 (otto.bf.rmit.edu.au) X-Http-User-Agent: unknown X-Authenticated-Sender: Kyr@nemoria.dropbear.id.au Lines: 169 Xref: Supernews alt.satanism:70691 alt.pagan:217584 alt.religion.wicca:73943 nocTifer wrote: > ...REF on Satanic Sources with authors mentioned as regards "those which > feature Satan in a positive light or have been presumed to have done > such": > Milton _Paradise Lost_ > William Blake > Lord Byron > Shelley > Baudelaire I'll expand on what I wrote before, since it was a very brief skimming of authors. I'd add as possible others Anatole France, William Gerhardi and P.J. Bailey to the list. John Milton (1608-1674), "Paradise Lost": Milton begins the poem with an announcement that he intends to "justify the ways of God to men". Thus Blake's view that Milton was really "of the Devil's party" refers to his subconscious intentions, not his conscious ones. However, the fact that he thought God's ways needed to be justified at all is, IMO, a move away from unquestioning faith towards a more independent perspective. Milton's fallen angels seem modelled closely on Homer's heroes. They have a similar culture of open debate and a similar privileging of individual heroic merit. They carry spears (heaven's angels have swords) and pass their spare time with athletic contests. Milton's God is very much the "king" figure to Satan's "hero", although if there is the hero of the poem entire, it's probably Adam. Some key quotes for Milton's Satan are: "Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven." "The mind is its own place, and in itself / Can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven." "What reinforcement we may gain from hope; / If not, what resolution from despair." William Blake (1757-1827), "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell": A lot of Blake's later poetry involves Satan-type figures, but this one mentions Satan by name. At this point in his career Blake believed that following one's desires was the key to bliss, and he saw Satan as the force of desire and energy. Quotes: "Without contraries is no progression. Attraction and Repulsion, Reason and Energy, Love and Hate, are necessary to Human existence. From these contraries spring what the religious call Good & Evil. Good is the passive that obeys Reason. Evil is the active springing from Energy. Good is Heaven. Evil is Hell." "As I was walking among the fires of hell, delighted with the enjoyments of Genius; which to Angels look like torment and insanity..." George Gordon, Lord Byron (1788-1824), "Don Juan": Byron is considered the real-world archetype of the Romantic rebel, which is why he gets a mention here. "Don Juan" is not about Satan, but a young human libertine; Byron's subject matter isn't strictly Satanic, but his philosophy has been influential on subsequent Satanic thinkers. It could be argued, for instance, that Ducasse's "Maldoror" begins where "Don Juan" leaves off. Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792-1822), "Prometheus Unbound": Shelley was an atheist, an advocate of free love and a rebel against moral convention. He and Mary Shelley were also early feminists. "Prometheus Unbound" finishes the story begun with Aeschylus' "Prometheus Bound" (also worth taking a look at). Shelley's Prometheus is a Luciferian figure without the martial aspect. He is a metaphor for humankind, and himself is quite passive. The destroyer of tyranny in this case is Demogorgon, an enigmatic being who rises out of a cave, and is a more recognisably Satanic figure, being dark, wild and dangerous, but ultimately beneficial to humankind. He is often interpreted as being a spirit of the Imagination, which rises out of the subconscious when the bonds of authority become too tight. Charles Baudelaire (1821-1867), "Litanies of Satan": Baudelaire gives his personal angle on Satan, who he sees as a champion/kindred spirit of the outcast and downtrodden. The tone is undercut with irony, for example: "Whose magic gives a strength to ancient bones / Of drunkards trampled on the cobblestones, / Satan, take pity on my misery! Who, to console us in our fearful lot, / Taught us the mysteries of shell and shot, / Satan, take pity on my misery!" Anatole France, "The Revolt of the Angels": Mainly about the interaction between humans and angels on earth, but Satan appears at the end, lying in a Dionysian paradise by the Ganges. He chooses not to fight against God/the Demiurge in order to avoid stepping into the tyrannical king figure's place. Since people no longer believe in God, he considers that God has been conquered anyway. Quote: "God, conquered, will become Satan; Satan, conquering, will become God. May the fates spare me this terrible lot; I love the Hell which formed my genius. I love the Earth where I have done some good, if it be possible to do good in this fearful world where beings live but by rapine." William Gerhardi, "The Memoirs of Satan": The history of the world from Satan's perspective, lighthearted in tone, but with serious points to make. Gerhardi's Satan is a bit of a rake, but not nearly as nasty as some of the humans he encounters, and he has a strong compassion for human suffering. P.J. Bailey, "Festus": A version of the Faust legend. Bailey's Lucifer is a Mephistophelian tempter, given to philosphising, with a keen sense of aesthetics and a capacity for love. The poem is set within a very Christian framework, and Lucifer ends up being redeemed and reinstated. Quote: "Some souls lose all things but the love of beauty; / And by that love they are redeemable; / For in love and beauty they acknowledge good; / And good is God - the great Necessity." All of the above, with the exception of Byron and Blake, use Satan or Satanic figures who are quite mild-mannered. Even Demogorgon acts to restore a pastoral paradise. Authors who celebrate violence, destruction, pestilence etc. are certainly around, but they don't tend to use Satan as a vehicle for their expression, at least the ones I am aware of. > my additions: > Huysmans > Mark Twain I'm not familiar with these two (except for Huck Finn :-); can you tell me what their Satanic works are? > I'd like to also begin a list of those whose philosophy has been a major > influence on Satanism or been associated with Satan by its *adherents*: > Optimists > Diderot > Rousseau > Voltaire > David Hume > Immanuel Kant > De Sade > Ducasse > Friedrich Nietzsche > know any more or their whole names/dates? if need be I'll have to make > a research trip to the public library to flesh it out. Isidore Ducasse (aka Comte de Lautreamont), 1846-1870; Friedrich Nietzsche, 1844-1900; Donatien Alphonse Francois, Marquis de Sade, 1740 - 1814. To add information for those as are interested, Ducasse wrote the sublime "Maldoror". Nietzsche and de Sade wrote a helluvalot, but I'd suggest Nietzsche's "Twilight of the Idols", "The Antichrist" and probably "Thus spoke Zarathustra", and de Sade's "Philosophy of the Bedroom" as having the most direct philosophical influence on Satanism, or at least as useful places to start reading. However, YMMV. > some musical > composers: > Beethoven (disharmonics) > Paganini > Lidst > Wagner I'd be interested in hearing your views on what the Satanic aesthetic might conceivably include. For instance, would you put wild gypsy music in there? Or do you consider the Satanic to be not only wild, but abrasive in some way, such as discordance? -Kyr -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
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