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Subject: The CoS after 1976

WG is William Gidney of Jesus of Borg, Aquino is Dr. Michael Aquino of the Temple of Set. The unmarked paragraphs are Tani's responses.

Subject: Re: The ever changing face of the once mighty CoS

From: xeper@aol.com (Dr. Michael A. Aquino)

Date: 2000/11/11

Newsgroups: alt.satanism

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In article <8uhn43$k48$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, William Gidney wrote to Hr. Vad:

WG said: The Church of Satan champions today what it established in 1966. That is our "tradition."

The COS is nothing but what Vad said it is: kinky sex, like S&M mostly; homophobic (got letters to prove it); neo-fascitoid in a non-political and ignorant manner. In short, fucked up people. Mostly UGLY and misshapen people! Does that matter? If they looked that bad in highschool when formative things happen: it matters. I know for a fact it is that: and yeah, FROM THE INSIDE. They can make revision on that all they want. Heh... Do they imagine that I did NOT get news from people also inside? They'd be stupid to think that after other things they've seen me "find out."

Aquino said. Well, no. In 1966 it was established to champion Satan, the Prince of Darkness; study and application of Black Magical Arts derived from the Powers of Darkness; and, socially, "Indulgence instead of Abstinence" in the ennobling pleasures of life.

Anton later told some members that Satan was only a symbol or metaphor; meanwhile he told others that Satan talked to him as a tutelary demon. Anton lied. But when it all crystallized into his eroticized Devil persona, Anton really believed that he either was the Devil, or that the Devil WOULD COME to him, like in a horror movie. Now, in my opinion, that's nuts. He did NOT have some anthropomorphic mental image, via meditation, of a force or principle like Mahakala - no no. He was NUTS and it was all "self-hate, obsession with being accepted, mixed with warped sexuality." He became the Devil, someone one would imagine would get him further unaccepted - but that's how this dynamic works! He was IN LOVE, in his heart, with what would exterminate him at worst, ostracize him at best, in a polite way (he was used to that type). To him the Devil was "sex with the schiksas" to put it in street talk.

Aquino: The post-1975 organization denied the existence of Satan, dismissed Great Black Magic except as psychodrama, and replaced the original, Epicurean concept of Indulgence with extremist fad-following for social shock-effect.

All this is obviously the latter-day participants' prerogative, but they should not feel so defensive about it as to try to pass it off as pre-1975 Church history too.

Point is moot. They'll believe Peter Gilmore because it suits their emotional needs. They'll even believe "Tani cared" when ALL evidence in their faces screams "Tani despised them from the get go," and Gilmore has letters blatantly saying that up front and to his face. LOTS of letters. Mocking letters about how Anton keeps fucking up. Or about how useless everything he ever wrote is. Ole mocked Blanche 4 years ago after Anton died (3 years ago? 2?). She whined to me about it and asked me what he meant. Why ask me? Why NOT ask him?

WG: Central Grotto essentially displays a bit of nepotism for their grottos when it is time for them to renew their status every year and deducts a fair percentage based upon new members who employed said grotto as a point of contact. That is not a financial "incentive," it is a simple act of "One hand washing the other."

Peter Gilmore has said on many occasions that the Grottos are the bottom of the barrel, they are "meeting clubs" for the Satanists who couldn't make it being loners. But then, Peter Gilmore is also a liar and a two face. But why would he tell me this when I never asked about Grottos? After all, it's not like I'd ever try to make one and I never did try. We obviously had enough people down here to do it if we ever wanted to. Why would he just bring up grottos and trash them to the sewers when I never asked about them? Good question.

Aquino: Again a change from the original Church of Satan. Prior to 1970 membership cost a one-time fee of $13. From 1970 to 1975 it cost $25 to join and $10 to renew each year. The Central Grotto did not charge Grottos anything at all, and Grottos were allowed to charge their members only modest amounts suitable to cover local expenses (ceremonial supplies, refreshments, newsletters).

Anton and Diane were very emphatic that the Church should not be used for any form of financial exploitation, and the Priesthood were well aware of this. When Anton learned that one Priest (Wayne West) had violated this policy, he expelled him immediately.

Hr. Vad: What you neglect to mention is that Doktor's writings are no longer just a _sufficient_ condition whether you're a Satanist: it is the ONLY thing that counts. The current leadership of the CoS obviously considers Doktor's writings to be Holy Scripture in much the same way as the Xtians consider their Holy Bible all-important.

WG: I have neglected nothing. Dr. LaVey as the founder and spearhead of the Church of Satan's agenda and raison d'etre also authored The Satanic Bible which is the foundation of everything else we embody.

The SB, imo, is one of the most pathetic pieces of "lure in the inversionist trash" books ever written. I said that from the get go too. The ONLY good things in there are the 9 statements "defining Satanism" and the statement about the Dark Force in Nature. That's IT. That's what I always thought AND SAID. I trashed MiR online loud enough for everyone to see it - and made sure I signed those posts with the MAG thing. LOL. Ballbuster: I AM.

Aquino: During 1966-75 the Church issued, updated, and maintained a reading list of a great many works by historic and contemporary authors pertinent to Satanism. [Many of these entries were continued into the 1975+ Temple of Set reading list, along with Anton's notations concerning them.]

Anton assuredly considered himself the founding High Priest of the first contemporary Satanic religious institution, but he did not claim to invent its religious or social philosophy, which was a composite of many preexisting social currents.

YOU BET! He couldn't claim that with something like Carducci's "Hymn to Satan" hanging in the Nobel Prize Library. Let's use the logic then: Carducci had friends? One person that knew well of Carducci and had friends was Thomas Mann? They had a clique? Heh. As Vad pointed out in one of my kinds of "reductio ad absurdums" - the BODY has existed longer than religion - it's only common sense that groups of humans would form philosophies or religions BASED ON that very body and their physical senses. DUH! The Gidney's and others are just too "deaf," too emotionally obscured to use reason on the issue.

Aquino: And as is by now well-known, Anton did not author the "Book of Satan" in the _Satanic Bible_, nor the Enochian Keys. He authored the original "rainbow sheet" essays that were reprinted as the "Book of Lucifer", as well as the instructions for magical and religious ceremonies. Until 1975 the _SB_ was regarded within the Church as a "basic statement for the public", but not as an end-all/be-all recitation-icon within the organization.

WG: HP Barton is absolutely correct! Our heritage, our "tradition," our legacy and future are based upon the historical impact and context of the Church of Satan, and not ancient paganism, no matter how allegedly "dark" the so- called "doctrine."

Another FTR: the only things TBF ever printed were articles written by Phil and Wayne on the "Satanic Tradition" stuff, Pythagoreanism, and the USA founding father stuff - i.e., stuff we sell as the 2 Western ROOTS articles. TBF printed *articles* I wrote - but NOT the Dark Tradition stuff which I never gave them to print! ABYSS sold that stuff ages ago. My arms/accident prevented me from continuing. I'm OK now :) That was a lot of work btw. TBF never printed Set, Real Wicca, Convalescence from Christianity, Sigil of Baphomet, Tantra, Dark Kaballa, Taoism. Those were articles I wrote or jointly wrote. And so......another Barton myth exploded: COS didn't do shit for me - this stuff was around a long time. I was ONLY asked to give Gilmore the ROOTS stuff - Western: about Pythagoras, separating Plato from Socrates, and the USA founding fathers. THAT IS IT. The rest of what he printed that I wrote were merely short articles, nothing more. So another Barton lie is exploded here. With facts! PROVABLE facts.

Aquino: As above, contradicted by the Church's original reading list and open acknowledgment of its various pre-inspirations. Note also the _Satanic Rituals_, which contains many Satanic rites preexisting the Church of Satan - including the "Ceremony of the Nine Angles" and "Call to Cthulhu", which date back to shockingly eldritch dimensions and horribly forbidden aeons.

Oh go on... why'd he have to say that? I never heard Aquino make a joke before.

WG: According to your accusation, our formerly atheist members are not really Satanists, but atheists; and our former Jewish members are likewise Jews and not Satanists. That is dung, and every real Satanist knows it.

No, Vad is accurately accusing the new regime of being Culturally Christian in ALL ways - INVERSIONISTS. Nothing but that. Vad is right.

Aquino: According to the post-1975 LaVey doctrine, you are by your own insistence atheists.

TOUCHE - on the money.

WG: The Church of Satan operates on a "Need to know" basis, and well, apparently, you did not need to know!

This is the CULT Gerber and I uncovered - discovered when we saw every email they mailed to that girl Jill - who for some ODD reason imagined that "Tani" was the ringleader of the cult. I didn't even know who she was. Instead of doing what we wanted to do - we had to defend ourselves against her attacks - in the guise of defending the COS? Gilmore WROTE those refutations since none other could do it, Ole and I added some comments here or there. "COS ACCUSES OF CULT ABUSE, HERE IS REFUTATION" that document. Gilmore would NOT let Ole post it up there as "official," even tho Gilmore wrote it.

The original Church of Satan was entirely open at the Priesthood (III*+) level concerning its administrative decisions, and routinely just about as open among the I*/II* membership too. [What was there to hide?]

There is a mountain of shit to hide now - it was only apparently a molehill when John Raptis uncovered it - and they did to him what they tried to do to others. HIDDEN is the fact that Gilmore wrote the "refutation" document. It's by "no one in particular" but says "by those involved" on it. Jill was involved with Nadramia/Gilmore in spying on Rinker and Karla and in doing shit to fuck them up, frame them. HIDDEN is the fact that Gilmore's "Guide to the Misdirected" thing wherein he is praising the Dark Tradition to the skies, was written to COUNTER my refusal to attack Egan for using Sat and Tan and the Baphomet information and other things he got from us - in a very simplified form. NOT HIDDEN is what Gilmore had to say about the Dark Tradition behind our backs (or so he thought, he he he).

WG (here comes the suckupery): Magister Gilmore is a talented, educated, insightful, and hardcore Satanist, loyal to the "tradition" of the CoS and the legacy of its founder, with whom he knew quite well.

Aquino: Peter Gilmore spent quite a lot of effort trying to ingratiate himself with me (as High Priest of the Temple of Set in the 1980s) behind Anton's back, which I tolerated only until I discovered that he was also trying to ingratiate himself to Anton behind my back. This struck me as a tad hypocritical, so I helped Gilmore out of his dilemma by inviting him to choose one honest alternative [and sending a copy of my letter to Anton]. Gilmore opted for Anton, who decided to overlook his duplicity upon suitable fawning. [It also left the red-faced Gilmore with an emotional axe to grind against the Temple of Set, which prompted his subsequent grudge newsletter.]

Oh yes. TOUCHE! He even had a grudge against Aquino's EYEBROWS if you can believe it. YES! He's the one who coined the term "Lupus Lilith" and no, I NEVER was online - I NEVER said that to her. I never MET Lilith. But I sure got the credit for it: more "need to know" hidden, secret, hush-hush bullshit. There is a LOT hidden regarding Anton's illness and the lack of a will too. Talk about shit under the carpet. Do you have any idea what kind of place he was living in? What kind of "responsible person" would live in an environment that was as fucked up as a crack house? FILTHY, broken down - what, they couldn't clean their home or fix little things up?

WG: Beyond that, you forgot to mention many other elements which inspired The Satanic Bible: Sade, Epicuras, Sartre, Kant, Mills, Plato, Freud, Hitlerian "Strength through Joy," and much much more!

Dr. LaVey, in the time honored tradition of Philosophers around the globe throughout the ages, studied previous ideals and chose from them that which he resonated with and felt were truly "Satanic.

PHILOSPHER? LAVEY? LMAO! PUH-leeeese! I said it from the get go. If Gilmore ever denied I said it, wrote it up front, he's a liar.

Aquino: Actually none of the above names are cited on the original dedication page (omitted in current paperbacks) of the _SB_. Nor within its text anywhere, to my recollection.

Of the same names, I think only Plato was included on the original C/S reading list (ca. 1968), nor do I recall Anton mentioning any of the others in, for example, his [pre-75] _CH_ articles.

The new regime would have it that any other org that dares to combine any of these mentioned texts into their own form of Satanism, then that is riding on the coattails of LaVey. Actually, no one is riding his lack of a tail - except the current cos itself. Egan made the FCOS to hound Gilmore specifically: "Peter Gilmore and his storm troopers." Vincent Crowley resigned due to the "new improved" Peter Gilmore. Gilmore tried to hush that up by telling "Sir Chaos" he knew nothing of it. Meanwhile we had Vincent himself saying he resigned. Huh? The man himself doesn't know he resigned?

WG: "Satan," itself, was never a mythic being until Christianity. "Satan" is a Hebrew word and not a name, meaning "Adversary," and many speculate that it dates back to the alleged tale of Moses freeing the "slaves" from the Egyptians and even that it was a term applied to the Roman occupational government that ruled the Hebrews during the purported life of Y'Shua/Jesus.

Aquino: Not true. "Satan" as the proper name of the Devil appears five times in the Old Testament, for instance 1 Chron. xxi.1.

Notwithstanding that there is no archaeological evidence for an actual Exodus, there is no indication that the Hebrews used the term to refer generically to the Egyptians.

HAPIRU (strangers) referred to many peoples, not just the ones that later became Jews. TeVelda has it that anything that we'd call "Semite" was called "Set" by these Egyptians - and he has hard proofs and reads the hieroglyphics: he's not an occultist, he's an expert. BTW, Gilmore is the one who said that TeVelda was the expert Aquino relied on; hence we read that book "for Gilmore." Some of these people were not related to the Jews at all - like the different peoples in modern day Georgia, including the Abkhazians (blacks from Khem!), the other ones tracing to the Arghoi, and the Turanians that were there, formerly being in Libya. The problem is in vowels and the Heb. language. Sat is not the same as Set. Set is the forefather OF these people later to become Jews. People DID use tribal names, just as Uzbek-istan is named after a man named Uzbek - this can be easily found out since it's more modern.

Aquino: As the Temple of Set discovered, it is an interesting development that the Hebrews' composite "Devil" came to share many features of Egyptian _neteru_, such as the red skin of Set and the ram/goat head of Amon or Mentu. In hieroglyphic, Set's honorific title ("Eternal Set") ca. the Goshen rebellion in Egypt was _Set-hen_ - which you can take either as the origin of "Satan" or as simply a coincidence.

That's what we had the quibble over. THIS. Suggest SATI. That's a 3 fold Egyptian deity. Gerber knows of no "demonic, horrific" figure in Judaism that is red or ram-headed, except Azaz-el is the "Red Ray" but - it doesn't have that physical description at all - Azaz-el Victorious Messenger. Samael is the only thing that would be an adversary of life: Angel of Death: ha malech ha moveth. Poison Messenger literally. That's in Hebrew. Not Yiddish. You'd have to read the Hebrew, not some translation by Christians of this. "He is a Hitler." What is "a Hitler?" There is a real analogy! Shortened, I've said it myself and so has Ole: "Peter is Hitler." There ya go! "America is Satan." Moslems say it. "White men are Devils." Farrakhan says it. HOW would such texts be interpreted 2000 years from now? There is no entity called Satan in the Hebrew - really! Here is ha satan.

Aquino: Cf. Paul Carus' _History of the Devil_ and, for extraordinarily detailed discussions of the influence of ancient Egypt on Judaeo-Christianity, the works of Gerald Massey (_ A Book of the Beginnings_, _Natural Genesis_, and _Ancient Egypt_).

Oh, also Martin Bernal (Black Athena) and his debater, Lefkowitz, a scholar. These two caused the BIGGEST debate ever to his academia, and hardly anyone even knows about it.

WG: We define ourselves. We are not defined by Jews or Christians, or pagans such as yourself. The CHURCH OF SATAN defines what is or is not "Satanic." Hence, minor mythic or name relations between us and other religions do not make us part of some silly "tradition."

No no, the new, revised, revised again, and revised revisited, cos defines them - ala Barton and Gilmore. She a COMPLETE idiot against women's rights; he a pompous, mealy mouthed ass with a penchant for revisionism (i.e., LYING).

Aquino: This holds true between yourself and your bathroom mirror. The moment you move into a larger society, then your use of definitions is necessarily a function of social habit plus whatever influence you can exercise. The world generally defines "Satanism" as the religious worship of Satan, and to an additional/unfortunate extent as a synonym for destructive and degenerate behavior generally.

By 1975 I think the original Church of Satan, which acknowledged and championed the first definition,

But was MOTIVATED by the "degenerate" urge - in Anton, sexually.

Aquino:... had made many strides towards refuting the second one. Unfortunately the "Satanic crime" mania of the 1980s pretty much destroyed that progress - and by then the "Church" was also emphatically denying the existence of Satan as well.

Until Blanche blurted out "Anton really believe in the Devil" to a reporter, whereby Karla had to immediately say "not with horns or a tail or living in Hell or anything..." but that part went unheard.

WG: In short, when anyone in the world wants to learn about Satanism, they will learn about the CHURCH OF SATAN, not some silly half-baked "goth pagan tradition." You are essentially eclectic pagans, we are Satanists. Period.

Um, when the world wants to know about Satanism, the world seldom bumps into the Church of Satan - and if it does and bumps into any of them, the world gets immediately turned off. If they bumped into our Dark Tradition stuff, they did NOT get turned off at all. Kaiden, Vad and Ole, for instance, to name only ones I think you know, have university degrees: they bumped into the DTrad and got interested in IT. Later on they found a lot more stuff to corroborate it, tho they weren't specifically looking FOR that, necessarily. They each were interested in what they were interested in: they, in doing their interests, BUMPED INTO the Dark Tradition AND other corroborating things. After the "title thing" and all the flames online, they got the idea that "these DTrad people are linked to the cos." That is how they found the cos. This holds true for every one of them that has told the cos to piss off and joined with us. We, in turn, having had Satanic Reds for 3 years as our own thing, joined the Satanic Council since - well, what are we going to do with all these members? Stand alone? NO! Join in with something I noticed and really admired and liked: CREATIVE NEW APPROACHES to the Dark Tradition - some of the orgs on the Council are pro Anton, some don't care about Anton. NONE of them want to be bothered with cos. They separate Anton FROM the cos, Barton, Gilmore, etc. But the "storm troopers" will not let up on harassment - phony complaints to ISP's and such nonsense. Some people are taking my advice because any lawyer would tell them the same thing and charge money: DON'T USE ANTON'S SHIT. Footnote Anton if you have to. DON'T USE his damned corporate logo since it is a corporation. DON'T use his copyrighted books - they are NOT like the Koran or Bible where you CAN use stuff from it. Koran and Bible are not copyrighted; they are public domain. If they want cos out of the loop - they have to REMOVE cos from the connection. MY advice to the Satanic Council is that. Marginalize Anton - simple as that. Either that, or COS is going to persecute them as they already have been doing. You'd not BELIEVE the lengths cos has gone to, to mess with these organizations! And all of the ones doing this are NOT EVEN BEING PAID to do it!

Aquino: The world generally thinks of the Church of Satan as just Anton LaVey's bizarre personal publicity vehicle, and accordingly of no consequence past his death.

Wiccans are a large presence here in this area. Asking many of them if they ever heard of Anton Lavey - only ONE, a bit older than me, knew of him but she thought he died years ago. Her take on it is that he's way back there with Gardner. Freemasons of all stripes are also a large presence and my wearing of the 2 point up star is positive here abouts. I get invited to LOTS of parties :) Their take on Anton LaVey is "carnival charlatan." Why two Masons would ask me to GIVE GILMORE the Roots stuff? I don't know. Anton was sick, they told me, but WHY give them anything? Unfortunately, I swore I could and would get the information together for them - BEFORE I knew where they intended for it to go. Oath is oath. He printed that in TBF - part of the Roots 2 one - another COS based mag printed the 2nd part of it. I also gave him the article on the Eleusinian Set concept, and the Sirius Set thing; tho he did ask me to write it up. He didn't print it cause he thought Aquino would sue him. (HUH?) I did not give him Real Wicca, Convalescence From Christianity, Sigil of Baphomet, or ANY of the Dark Tradition articles. Abyss sold them. Egan was using info from Sigil of Baphomet - he got that either from us or from Abyss in 1990. The cos had NOTHING TO DO with the name "Tani" becoming favored with many people. "Tani" did not write Roots One OR Roots 2. Phil Marsh wrote Roots One. It's an article clearly separating Plato from Socrates. Wayne Hill primarily wrote Roots Two which is about the USA and the Founding Masonic Fathers. It's the Dark Tradition stuff I did on Tantra and Kaballa and Baphomet - and a marginal hard one on Taoism, that got ME liked by so many. That was not given to the cos - nor did they ever see it to promote it. So once again, Gilmore revision and Barton ignorance yields more bullshit being spewed - with the truth hidden under the carpet. I wrote COS versus TOS - I noticed stuff in the online one that was not in my hard copy (HEH! fancy that, editors.....) I wrote Neter - again, same thing (how'd that get in there?). I wrote Tree of Destruction (it's not about Kaballa). I have hard copy of what I wrote - they never thought I'd get online some day and SEE all that? I mailed all those discs to NADRAMIA! Vad had no reason to think anything was different. UNTIL I got online recently. Phil Wrote Evolution, Christians and Setians - but what he quoted from was Aquino's book - or so claimed Gilmore who gave it to Phil to read.

Aquino: Neo-paganism is pretty multi-faceted, and certainly has had its share of pratfalls since it appeared in the 1960s (Gardner, Buckland, et al.). But it has served to revive interest in many pre-Christian religious traditions in historical Europe, which are becoming more influential as they become better-known.

Wicca and Pagan, along with some AIM and gay rights, and feminism in general are POLITICAL, not just religious. I DESPISED the cos for being so ultra right wing when these other groups, all allied politically, had their heads screwed on right. But that was none but Anton's own doing: he PEOPLED his post 1975 cos with TOTAL NAZIS. Bruce Ithier was the E. Coast rep back then in 1976. He was one of the "criminal element scum" that I mentioned before. The Amsterdam "Satanic Club" was a whore house with not all the hookers being voluntary. DID YOU KNOW THIS? Vad and Ole ran into some of these people who HATED the cos and told them what happened to them back then. But then they saw the Dark Tradition stuff and figured "oh, maybe cos changed?" No, it didn't; not in spirit.

WG: Not all pseudo-Satanists are of the Mershon/Egan variety. Some are rather industrious, such as the Temple of Set. We welcome these types, such as yourself, as a clearing house for fools we do not want polluting our ranks. Keep up the good work.

That's the party line. He doesn't get it - tho we all said it. The baby found the bathwater to be poisonous. More and more babies decided to get out of the cess pool and dry off. THAT is the reality! It's SO obvious. It would not serve US to do what Vincent Crowley did and walk away, resign. No. Gerber and I hatched a PLAN and we carried it out with the help of these very people - people that HAD to have known how much we despised them. Mere use of the title produced instant results: they talked. And we posted it and exposed it all. Well, ALMOST all. The egroups got the rest of it. YOU got it all too! After all, it's all horses mouth stuff, for the record.

Foreigners in the DDocs group, who also got it all, now take this and use it to disabuse anyone that's caught up in the smoke and mirror illusion of the "million membered, filthy rich, big aristocratic, cos." I would NEVER have been able to get that kind of exposure of them, proof of it, had I walked away and resigned - as MANY suggested I do over and over, as I ALMOST did many times. Gerber said "no nooooo, persevere." I had a plan. I carried it out. I had victory! And yeah, I'm rather indifferent, or was until the suckups started to flame me. I have to wonder WHY they are bothering? It's too late for that. Why wait for a whole month to pass to flame me? Why care? I don't know. I didn't do what Aquino did: make a BIG THING out of it - but maybe the recurrence of "fuck you cos" letters are spelling out something I'm not aware of. Even worse, the ones still in cos that are not writing "fuck you cos" letters but who are WITH US! Gilmore/Barton have no way to know who they are. And we have NOTHING to hide. People who thought the Dark Tradition was linked to cos are NOW being told that it is not and that cos has NO PERMISSION to link it or lure members (ripping them off) by using it. This is being widely spread around - abroad especially; Scandinavian countries, Finland, and S. America. Internet is good for that :) Keep in mind, Gilmore's "Guide to the Misdirected" was on the cos website - and that DEFINITELY linked our stuff directly to the cos.

Aquino: As I recall, you were expelled from the Temple of Set as a Setian I* for your racist ideology, and only went running back to Anton LaVey thereafter. Your choice, but not exactly supportive of your pomposity here.

WG: Lastly, the Vad & Tani types

:) so far, that's well over 200 people! About 50 of them are in Satanic Reds! That's quite a lot of people in one month, I'd say.

WG: ... refer to their "titles" granted to them by Dr. LaVey as if he were in fact a god!

Indeed I did this WHEN TALKING TO THEM. ONLY then! They needed that LOL. It got me the information I wanted.

WG: ... Yet, when his chosen and appointed Administrators fulfill the duties of their office in accord with the "tradition" begun by Dr. LaVey himself, these same LaVey demonizers act as if their Satanic hierarchical superiors have no authority over their "titles" as they were granted by "another." How can Dr. LaVey have such a profound impact on those whom he never met, such as Vad & Tani, yet those he personally knew and cultivated and not only promoted in "title" but in Administrative Office (s) have no impact??? These dolts and trouble makers cannot have it BOTH ways, no matter their protestations!!! They are simple hypocrites.

Sure we can have it both ways. When addressing suckups - always use the title. They require that. When addressing respected people - DO NOT use the title because it is completely worthless and anyone I'd respect WOULD know that! I never respected DUPES. I think Aquino was DUPED, definitely DECEIVED! BIG TIME - by Anton. I sincerely hope he is OVER it. I know he is CONVINCED Anton was serious. Sigh. It was always about Anton, himself, and nothing BUT himself. I think Aquino can't fathom this; it just seems like that to me. Maybe he does: NOW.

WG: You can almost see the Newspaper Cartoon of them at a job, being promoted by one executive and then demoted or fired by another, but still showing up to perform their prior function, because they do not recognize the authority of the second "boss."

I did not do that. I commenced to carrying on doing my own thing - my job was done - it got exposed. They are the ones who brought it online in the form of flames! They are doing it RIGHT NOW. Vad did not post his letters to Barton. A shit disturber did. Why?

Aquino: That's pretty much what happens when all titles lose organizational validation beyond the whim of one individual, and any meaning beyond similar whim. [This is called "I told you so in 1975", sung to the tune of "Turn Down the Lights" by the Jefferson Airplane.]

The title never meant anything - but was good for BOO-ing one Mr. Scratch and getting the "yes Magistra" from the cos suckups. Otherwise it was worthless. In our org there are no titles. In other matters I have a title within the AASR community - and another one within my own culture that would have no meaning to a Westerner. Nonetheless, I seldom use them. In Satanic Reds, titles mean NOTHING. If a person has one from another org, fine. If they have one from a university, fine. But in Satanic Reds, these mean nothing!

It's funny, Xennu. I grew up in a culture that you pretty much are DOING with your Vajrayana group. But when I set out to MAKE an org 3 years ago, it was with an emphasis on real world things that are political, that serve the SELF AND the people around us. I already went "all the way up" to that "selfless" stage - it's not quite what you might think. Oh, IDGAF reigns supreme but you have to anchor yourself back INTO the illusion or there is BIG danger in doing this. I LIKE the illusion LOL! I mean, I like the beach, coffee, my favorite TV shows. You know? I have such joy when I see the front page of Satanic Reds - I designed it - it is SO PRETTY. The colors are SO pretty. The eyes are adorable! I got good really fast online and with the computer; that FELT like something good, it brought me joy. Doing the Vajrayana all the way up to "egolessness" is well... ho hum. That strikes both ways you know. Once you REALLY KNOW - KNOW - that the walls, chairs, you, me, sun, are all samsaric and the ONLY reality is the void...... you can easily exterminate people and KNOW you have done nothing but rearrange the illusory furniture in the grand illusion. Maybe you never thought about that. But yeah, it works both ways! Sure you feel the interconnectedness of the web that IS the Wheel of Life - and the solitariness of the Self which IS the Vajra in that state. BUT..... rearrangeing the furniture is easy! !! Soooo.. I prefer the illusory Self :) and joyful things that benefit that - and in benefiting others like with HEALTH CARE, HIGHER WAGES - I benefit myself - I get to have good health care too and not end up living with poor people in a slum. If the quality of life is good for others around me - then it's good for ME too. I'd not be likely to get mugged, or have my car robbed. That's my take on Satanic Reds. VERY mundane in ! a way! The opposite of what I came from in my own culture. Interesting.

Tani

Michael A. Aquino
Magister Templi IV*-II'
Church of Satan 1975

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