THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
	a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.

Subject: Peter Gilmore's Treatment of Amina

Clarifier: Corax is Amina Lap. Paimon is Kenneth, her ex boyfriend. She is connected to Hr.Vad's Dark Doctrine group with Ole Wolf and others.

THIS is what went before:

This is high praise for the work of Amina: Look at this: speaking of Amina who is in SReds now. Ole Wolf's girl. Ole Wolf is one of the founders of Satanic Reds, in 1997.

Odal said: man, she has collected every single article from danish papers since the 80s - way over 600 articles in her database....shit, man if they knew what she was doing, they'd fucking send her flowers every day

Amina said: Gilmore and Peggy knew what I did. I told them. And they told me "how great" it all was. You can have the E-mails [attached]. As you can see Paimon [her former partner] and I believed in the CoS bullshit. I don't think you have much use of them but here they are anyway. The only interesting part I see in them is when they are defending how Schlessingers deals with people. When I E-mailed Schlessinger and asked him to stop and CC'ed Peggy with it long before these E-mails I just got ignored. That is what you get when you try to act like they say you should and go to the officials instead of making it a public issue.

Commissar said: Odal, let it reflect on the SATANIC COUNCIL. Let her send reports to THEM and link with THEM!

Amina said: I have tried to keep "Satanic Media Watch and News Exchange" sort of objective. The english section of the web page is about the "Satanic Panic" and the texts were written by christians, atheists, wiccans and so on. I do not have any satanic philosophy on my page and I have never used the baphomet or told I was a member of CoS on the site.

I am not joining the satanic council because my web page is not a satanic webpage but something else. It is about the "Satanic Panic". It is about the media and about legal rights.

SR NOTE: no problem. Comrade Amina is a Satanic Red, and Reds is on the Council. And Reds is all about human rights!

Amina continues: My webpage has nothing to do with any orgs. I am also afraid that if I connect my web page with satanic orgs. it will look less objective. I get between 200 and 400 hits each week and I think most of the visiters are christians. People learn from the page. I even got contacted by a professor in the history of religions in Norway who is an expert on the satanic panic. He liked the webpage and my own Danish texts on the issue. It looks like we are going to help each other. We have already exchanged information and stuff from our archives.

Most of the work I do is connected to Denmark and has nothing to do with what is going on in other countries so U.S. satanists would not have any use for reports. I'm not going to write any repports to the CoS in the future or help them in any other way.

In my work in Denmark I have worked togerther with OTO people, Wicca people, Scientology, christians and anyone else who had some information I could use. I usually don't have that many problems dealing with people from other groups.

Almost all the information I have on the U.S. is already on my webpage and people are welcome to ask me if they think I have something they could use. People can use the stuff I have if they want to. No problem. The only stuff not online is dealing with specific cases of "Satanic Panic" only interesting from a historical point of view or with stuff from Denmark.

- Amina

This is what went before with her and the CoS.

------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C0553F.D85C4480

Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Re A few questions and an explanation.eml"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Re A few questions and an explanation.eml"

From: hpoelzig <hpoelzig@ix.netcom.com>

To: "Corax & Paimon" <bkb1827@vip.cybercity.dk>

Date: Tue, 4 May 99 11:58:00 -0400

Subject: Re: A few questions and an explanation

Message-ID: <199905041559.KAA21127@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com>

Received: by usr03.cybercity.dk (mbox bKb1827) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Tue May  4 18:39:39 1999)

Received: from cicero2.cybercity.dk (cicero2.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.53]) by usr00.cybercity.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18825 for <bkb1827@vip.cybercity.dk>; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:01:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from hpoelzig@ix11.ix.netcom.com)

Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by cicero2.cybercity.dk (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27853 for <bkb1827@vip.cybercity.dk>; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:59:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from hpoelzig@ix11.ix.netcom.com)

Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA21127 for <bkb1827@vip.cybercity.dk>; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:59:01 -0500 (CDT)

Received: from nyc-ny65-24.ix.netcom.com(209.109.224.216) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020945; Tue May  4 10:57:59 1999

X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

x-sender: hpoelzig@popd.ix.netcom.com X-From_: hpoelzig@ix11.ix.netcom.com Tue May  4 18:01:11 1999

Dear Corax & Paimon:

Magister Gilmore here.

Amina and Paimon said: Ole Wolf told us, that he sent Magister Peter Gilmore a link, to a realplay file that shows an interview we made for the Danish National TV not long ago. That made us think, that it was probably about time we asked a few questions, we have been thinking about for some time.

But first, a little about what we have been doing for the last couple of years.

We joined the CoS about three years ago. Then in 1997 we joined forces with Rev. Hr. Vad and Danish CoS [NOTE: the Dark Doctrines was they they joined forces with this.] spokesman Max Schmeling, and together with them we formed a group formerly known as "CoS DK" (as you know, we ARE currently renaming the group, and reforming it into a grotto). In this group we have worked on the newsletter "Satanisk Bulletin", of which you have received three issues.

Gilmore said: And these will be reviewed in "The Black Flame," which we are currently putting together.

Amina and Paimon said: Other kinds of work have been with investigation and debating with the biggest anti-satanic group in Denmark, the Dialogcenter, which works together with American Family Foundation (AFF) and alot of Christian groups in Denmark, and on this front we have actually been able to make some rather big changes in their way of picturing Satanism, and at the same time, we have also been able to come up with a lot of discriminating stuff about the group, and that will come to good use later on.

Another project we are working on is gathering a large archive of Danish newspaper articles, that in some way talks about Satanism. This archive includes almost anything written in Danish magazines and newspapers for the last 20 years, and it is all being made into computer files, so that we will be able to share it with other CoS Satanists, who want to know about what have happened in Denmark. We are also gathering Swedish, Norwegian, English and American articles, both to be used in our archive, and to be used on our web page "Satanic Media Watch and News Exchange" (the biggest web page on the net, about the "Satanic Panic").

Gilmore said: And I trust you noted that this was up in the very first links section of our official website.

A and Paim said: We hope that we will be able to share our archives with other CoS members in the future, and if possibly, exchange material. Knowledge is power, and some of this knowledge can come from gathering archives, and studying the past.

Gilmore said: Since I spent many hours representing the Church of Satan in all the media during the "Satanic Panic," I am acutely aware of the need for inmformation to combat Christian agendas, particularly when disguised as "law enforcement." In our country, our constitution gives us direct protection and there is a sensitivity when Church & State begin to coincide.

A and Paim said: The last project we have been working on, has to do with "public service". We have tried to gather the local CoS members, and right now we are a little group of six CoS members in our town, that try to coordinate with each other (the other members are younger than us, and some of them joined the CoS after they met us, so we are sort of doing the coordination). This group has nothing to do with "CoS DK", but some of them will probably join the group when it gets grotto status.

Gilmore said: It would seem wise to have all of you network together.

A and Paim: Another "public service" we have worked with, has to do with journalists. Last year we had an interview that lasted for one and a half hours on the biggest local TV station in Denmark. The program was sent at night, but on a holiday, so there where actually a lot of people who saw it, and we got a lot of positive response.

Gilmore: Bravo & Brava!

A and Paim: Then a few weeks ago Corax had a debate meeting, where she was up against one of the leaders of the biggest anti-satanic groups in Denmark. That was kind of interesting, because it was actually the first public meeting, where one of their people met with a satanist and discussed Satanism, instead of just the usual kind of meetings, where one of their "experts" told the usual stupid stories. Our work with the anti-satanic groups has lasted for about one and a half year, so by now, we know their leaders personaly, and they accept us as knowing more about satanism than they do.

Gilmore: Excellent.

A and Paim: The realplay file Ole Wolf sent a link to, is the last TV interview we have made. It was for a program about computers, and our short clip, is about Satanism and the Satanic internet. We do not know if we will make more interviews in the future, but unless the CoS ask us not to do so, we will probably accept if we get the chance.

Gilmore: It is fine to do as you are doing--speaking out about the reality of Satanism and identifying yourselves as members of the Church of Satan, but not direct spokespersons (not yet).

SR NOTE: We wonder how they'd explain away Anton LaVey's elevating a pimp with a whore house to Grotto status in Amsterdam. That shit hole of a joint did exactly what the Christian SRA propagandists claim. And that was CHURCH OF SATAN shit. No OTHER Satanic organization ever did such a thing. We wonder how they'd explain away Anton and Blanche's cowardly actions when talking to the CID, where they AGREED with the SRA Satanic Panic people and tried to get Aquino, an innocent man, in trouble. How would they explain that away? These actions by the Church of Satan need to be made KNOWN. How would they explain away the elevation of Bruce Ithier, a drug abusing criminal and a pimp, to E. Coast leader back in the 1976 era? We know of no other Satanic organization out there that promotes itself by use of SLEEZE and SMUT, and then goes on campaings to slander innocent other Satanists by calling them pedophiles, Mongoloid idiots, whores, crack addicts, and so forth. We know of no other Satanic organization that condones bully tactics by one stupid Priest against productive other members, and then uses the CULT TACTIC of questioning "loyalty and committment" of productive people when they complain. We know of no other Satanic organization that holds a $100 piece of paper, a membership card, over the heads of their members when they don't fall into line. NONE do this except the Church of Satan, a corporation sole wherein no one joining has a single share of stock.

A and Paim: In our work we have always been careful to tell people (other CoS members, journalists, organizations etc. etc.) that we in no way spoke on behalf of the CoS, and that our views where only our own.

Gilmore: Perfect.

A and Paim: After this explanation of what we have been doing, we have a couple of questions.

We would like to know if you think we should report our future plans to the CoS, or if we can carry on as usual.

Gilmore: You should always keep up with us regarding any public representation that you do, no matter how small. Provide for us any related materials (photocopies of articles, video tapes [NTSC], audio tapes, and translations of non-English exchanges. Send two copies--one to the California P.O. Box and the other here to New York (the P.O. Box used for "The Black Flame" is also the New York contact point for our Church--we handle all email as well as coordinate media representation).

A and Paim: Should we apply for "agent" status,

Gilmore: Yes--that is exactly why we have that on the website, to encourage the capable who wish to stand forward. Since I expect you will put together a package of some of your recent representations, in the one going to the San Francisco P.O. Box, include a letter which requests Agent status, and you can note that I encouraged you to do so. As stated on the website, it is also a good idea to provide a video which can simply be you speaking to the camera as if you were giving a talk about Satanism (you can even have someone interview you from off camera).

A and Paim: or should we just report to the leader of our grotto, when "CoS DK" gets that status.

Gilmore: Your agenting activities can be part of the Grotto's purpose, or outside of it, depending upon what you all decide will be the ultimate reason for the Grottos existence. We are very flexible about this, and all of you involved in forming this Grotto should ask any questions you wish if anything is not clear.

If a Grotto intends to do any public representation, the Grotto Master must carefully report all of this to us, before the events take place--we are very careful about the public face of our Church and have spent many years perfecting this.

A and Paim: Do you think we should stop any of our projects, that we should change some of them, or do you know people who would be interested in working with us on some of them?

Gilmore: I think that all of your projects seem worthwhile. It is important that you are getting personal satisfaction out of them, as we don't want anyone doing things out of "a sense of duty." Here in the US, the "panic" is mostly evaporated, though in the wake of the High School shootings in Colorado, there are some efforts by Christians to use this as a means of drumming up funds and scaring people. Therefore, many US members might not be that interested in the "Correcting the Christian Propaganda" angle of your projects. What would be a worthwhile method for finding those who do wish to assist you, would be for you to write an article about your projects and activities (and how other concerned Satanists might participate) that I can print in "The Black Flame." I haven't looked at your site in a while, but something similar there would also be wise.

A and Paim: We hope you can help us answer some of these questions, and we thank you for taking the time to read our letter.

Gilmore: You are quite welcome.

HERE IT COMES FROM GILMORE, the ASIDE: I know that you have not been getting along well with Reverend Schlesinger in the Satannet Chat Room, but he does not wish to be a "teacher" and answer questions--which is his right as it is a private room that has nothing to do with the Church of Satan. He has his own personal style and it is to have fun with members (not really to discuss serious material), and to crush those who come in to cause trouble. That has no bearing on you both at all, I simply am aware that this situation exists. You will find that if you go there to have fun and simply discuss the topics at hand, you will find him likeable and friendly (though gruff). He hates questions and private messages.

So, if you have any questions, do not hesitiate to bring them to me and I will answer you as soon as my schedule permits. Use the chat room for fun.

Hail Satan!

Peter H. Gilmore

And this.

------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C0553F.D85C4480

Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Re A few questions and an explanation 2.eml"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Re A few questions and an explanation 2.eml"

From: hpoelzig <hpoelzig@ix.netcom.com

To: "Corax & Paimon" <bkb1827@vip.cybercity.dk>

Date: Fri, 18 Jun 99 10:37:09 -0400

Subject: Re: A few questions and an explanation

Message-ID: <199906181437.JAA28940@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com

Received: by usr03.cybercity.dk (mbox bKb1827) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Jun 18 17:12:20 1999)

Received: from cicero0.cybercity.dk (cicero0.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.52]) by usr01.cybercity.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05873 for <bkb1827@vip.cybercity.dk>; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:39:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from hpoelzig@ix15.ix.netcom.com)

Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by cicero0.cybercity.dk (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02735 for <bkb1827@vip.cybercity.dk>; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:38:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from hpoelzig@ix15.ix.netcom.com)

Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA28940 for <bkb1827@vip.cybercity.dk>; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:37:45 -0500 (CDT)

Received: from nyc-ny79-61.ix.netcom.com(209.109.229.189) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028876; Fri Jun 18 09:37:08 1999

X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" x-sender: hpoelzig@popd.ix.netcom.com X-From_: hpoelzig@ix15.ix.netcom.com Fri Jun 18 16:39:06 1999

Dear Corax & Paimon,

A and Paim: Thank you for your positive reply to our letter. We have not been able to reply until now, due to our work with the Prometheus Grotto, but mainly because of very happy and joyfully circumstances.

Last Monday, Corax gave birth to our first child, a perfect little girl. We are happy to tell You and Magister Peggy Nadramia about this happy event, but we ask you to keep it private. We are going to keep up on all our work, both public and non public, but we want to be sure that our daughter is kept away from the public and non-satanists as long as possible. Because of that we are keeping the news away from forums. We do have some trust in forums such as the S-word, but even here we have seen a lot of bad seeds, and we will rather be safe then sorry.

Gilmore: Peggy and I send our heartfelt congratulations to you! We also understand your desire for secrecy and will respect that (protecting the young magician until she is ready to deal with the corrupt is a wise action).

You should always keep up with us regarding any public representation that you do, no matter how small. Provide for us any related materials (photocopies of articles, video tapes [NTSC], audio tapes, and translations of non-English exchanges. Send two copies--one to the California P.O. Box and the other here to New York <

SR NOTE: Are they being PAID to do all this paperwork that never got read, never got answered or commented upon but which was demanded by Gilmore? HELL NO! Later on when Amina mentioned that they got no input, Schlessinger took to barking at her again, disparagingly calling her "Corky."

A and Paim: We will remember to do that in the future.

Gilmore: Excellent.

A and Paim: We will put together a package as soon as possible, and we are also planning to apply for agent status. Thank you for your encouragement! We are not interested in titles or the like, but we thought that it would probably be a good idea to get a more formal connection to the CoS because of our projects. We want to make sure that the CoS is informed on what our projects are, and that we do not do anything that might be against official politic or rules.

Gilmore: I'm certain that this will work out for the best for all of us.

A and Paim: All of our work/projects is done because we find it interesting. We find the social/anthropological angle of The Satanic Panic interesting, and that is one of the main reasons why we study it. We do not seriously think, that the Satanic Panic will ever come to Denmark or that it will reoccur in the USA.

Gilmore: That is good to know.

A and Paim: Our work with the anti-satanic groups also comes from personal interest. We do not want to make Satanism "house clean", but we find it interesting to talk to there so-called "experts" and to catch them using lies in the public debate. We do not want them to like or accept us, but it would be nice if they at least "hated" us for the right reasons, not because of Christian misunderstandings and propaganda.

Gilmore: Some actually do have this position (evangelist Bob Larson knows what we in the Church of Satan really are about, but he is very much a Satanic showman working to make money through Christ, so he also uses other tricks to keep his audience hooked).

A and Paim: Within the next year, we are planning to get to talk to the rest of the people who have written and/or talked in public about Satanism in Denmark. We have already had personal talks with a lot of them, and this has been positive, and even funny in a few cases. In one example, one of the first experts we talked to, got thrown out of the Christian anti-cult group, because he suddenly became a firm believer in UFOs (he claimed that one of his friends actually talked to TWO different races of aliens).

Other of the "experts" have revealed personal tendencies towards pedophilia, mental problems that they previous have been committed because of, and use of illegal drugs. These things and other incriminating revealed secrets have been given to us doing personal letter exchanges, so we do not only have their own words for it, we also have it on writing. For some reason it looks like some of their weaker people have a tendency to break down if we talk too much with them or to start "confessing" all sorts of personal problems. It surely looks like people would tell the Devil almost everything.

Gilmore: Those who support Christianity, specifically the ones who crusade against Satanism are all people with deep problems (drug use, abused as children, low degrees of self-esteem, and often paranoid fantasies). At times they will talk to the Devils, as they want attention and sympathy. We listen and gather ammunition.

A and Paim: I know that you have not been getting along well with Reverend Schlesinger in the Satannet Chat Room, <

We did not touch the topic in the first letter, because we knew that you had heard about the issue from both of us (the letter to Rev. Schlesinger we CCed Magister Peggy Nadramia on) and from Rev. Schlesinger himself, but also because we did not want to be accused of "whining".

Gilmore: Never fear to bring real problems to us.

SR NOTE: this bears repeating: Never fear to bring real problems to us. Never fear to bring real problems to us. Never fear to bring real problems to us. Never fear to bring real problems to us. Never fear to bring real problems to us. (Give us a fucking break.)

A. and Paim: Rev. Schlesinger have given us some trouble, but on the other hand, he has not been able to do any real damage, so we can hardly consider his dislike against us as a serious problem. In a ironical way, he has helped clear up some misunderstandings.

Gilmore: That is good.

A. and Paim: Right now we are just trying to ignore him and hope that he will do the same to us at some point in the future. On the other hand, it HAS been hard for us just to pass it all off as some kind of joke, so we have not been able to sit back and not defend ourselves. He has publicly accused us of working against the CoS and other serious accusations, and made treaths about getting us kicked out of the Church of Satan. It has been hard for us to see this as a joke, and it has actually concerned us, because we were not interested in getting our work and our relationship with the CoS destroyed, due to failure to communicate. Rev. Schlesinger is a "known" character in the CoS, and we are "new" members without much prior history.

Gilmore: Don't worry. The chat room isn't the Church of Satan, so what goes on regarding personal relationships there has no bearing outside the room.

SR NOTE: but when others "treat Andy Schlessie badly back" they are reprimanded for being rude to him. GET THE FUCK OUT!

A and Paim: We have tried to solve the problem in private on several occasions, we do not like public fights, one of these attempts being the letter Magister Peggy Nadramia was CCed on, but Rev. Schlesinger refused, and insist on attacking us in public, which made other CoS members attack us too, because they thought that if a CoS Rev. attacked us and accused us of something, then his accusations had to be truth. We will try to follow your advice in the future, and to keep away from Rev. Schlesinger as much as we can. We have used the chartroom in connection with some of our projects, but it is not such a big loss that it will mean anything. His dislike has given us some trouble, as previously mentioned, but he has not been able to do any real damage. Now we are just taking care of other projects and ignoring him.

Gilmore: That is the wisest course of action.

A and Paim: A note: We do _not_ want Rev. Schlesinger to hear about our child !

Gilmore: Noted.

So, if you have any questions, do not hesitate to bring them to me and I will answer you as soon as my schedule permits

A and Paim: Thank you for your kind replay and answers.

Gilmore: You are welcome.

A and Paim: The Prometheus group do have some questions to ask, but we will wait with those questions for now, and let Rev. Hr. Vad ask them as the leader of our group.

Gilmore: That is fine.

A. and Paim: Thank you for your time.

Gilmore: Again, you are both welcome. Keep up the great work!

Hail Satan!

PHG

------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C0553F.D85C4480-- 

=========================================

THIS is what it ended up becoming:

To: sataniccouncil@egroups.com satanicreds@egroups.com vad@mail.dk LuciFur@satan2000.com

From: satanicreds@my-deja.com Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:37:03

Subject: [Fwd: [satanicreds] FW: You, the liar]

This is PAR FOR THE COURSE with Pete and Peg these days. They said the same shit to "terrify" Stewart WolfAtHart- and oh yeah, we ALL remember that: he was TERRIFIED. Over what? Loss of a STUPID 10 cent unlaminated card!

-----Original Message-----

From: Ole Wolf [mailto:wolf@blazingangles.com]

Sent: 25. oktober 2000 20:05

To: Peter Gilmore

Subject: You, the liar

Corax showed me this. Comments inside.

----- Original Message -----

From: <nadramia@panix.com

To: Corax <ccc44406@vip.cybercity.dk

Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 5:49 PM

Subject: Re: Link section on the official CoS web page

Peter said Dear Ms. Lap: Since you are currently still a member of the Church of Satan, when I next update the links - I'll update yours. If you decide to resign (or if you include material hostile to the Church of Satan), then the link to your site will be dropped. Thank you for letting me know that you will be changing your URL.

Lap said What do you mean by "If you decide to resign"

Peter said: Just that. Your initial email seemed hostile, so this statement is a simple notification.

Ole said to Peggy (he's seen it too many times before...) Bullshit. You attempted to bully her, to scare her. LIAR.

Lap said and your commenting on CoS hostile information on the Web site?

Peter said. I did NOT say you had currently placed such material on your site. I know English is not your primary language, but the sentence should have been simple enough for you to grasp.

Ole said Bullshit. You attempted to bully her, to scare her. LIAR.

Lap said Have I talked about resigning? No.

Peter said: Did I say that you did?

Ole said (NAILED HIM DOWN good here) No. There was no need to bring up the topic in the first place like you did.

Lap said Do you see any CoS hostile information on my Web site? No.

Peter said: I haven't looked at your site in months, and I did NOT say it currently had hostile material.

Ole said to Peter No, but nonetheless you HAD TO mention the inclusion of the link in connection with CoS hostile material. This is what another person who saw your email had to say:

"Wonder what he means, then, by 'currently still a member'. Perhaps 'the person who is currently handling these matters' is used to this form of patronizing members? Perhaps 'if he doesn't go _completely_ insane' this will change? What he did was _not_ inform of policy regarding links, this information is readily available, and there is no need to provide this again. Is it not obvious that if one posts anti-CoS material, the CoS will nolonger want to link that site? Corax wasn't jumping to conclusions. If she was, this 'current official' is acting in a way completely unfit for an official representative of _anything_. If this was not bullying of Corax, I have no idea what is. Looks like someone's forgetting who pays the bills. I doubt the CoS will attract any members if this is the way it chooses to communicate with members. Especially members who've helped the CoS so much."

"What a pathetic man, to react in this way. And then to accuse others of being insecure. It is amusing beyond comparison. Arrogance is not a quality in respected leaders."

Lap said There is NO evidence of my being CoS hostile, on the contrary I've been very supportive of the CoS.

Peter said. Good for you.

Ole said. Not really.

Peter said. Since I have not heard from you in quite some time, I have no evidence either way. If you wish to document your support, please do so to the High Priestess - you have the San Diego PO Box address.

Ole said OH NAILED HIM DOWN. Like anyone would want to send personal information to Central, your actions considered. I do have email FROM YOU where you disclose personal information about members of the Church of Satan. I also have email from you where you claim you never disclose personal information. No evidence either way doesn't warrant threats and bullying. It means you have no reason to suggest otherwise, which you did with your mentioning CoS hostile material and continued membership. You forget who you're talking to. Besides, as you state later, you're not interested in her personal life anyway, so your botherering to use that excuse is rather pathetic.

SR NOTE: OH, but they are SO interested in the personal life of Morena and they always mention that Audey, her mate, is a "fat homosexual." What crap.

Lap said. I asked you to delete the link if you did not want to update it because I already told you about the issue in February.

Peter said. I have no record of that email. This is new information to me.

Ole said: Yeah, right. She even appended the email for you. It's not her problem you cannot keep track of what little effort it takes to update your website. The correct response from you is: "SORRY," followed by corrective action.

Lap said The web paged moved more than half a year ago! When nothing was done I thought you had decided on linking the old page and not the new one

Peter said. You made an incorrect assumption. I did not know your site had moved and had made no such decision. You should have emailed again and asked why a link was maintained to a site that had turned hostile. You did not. You assumed a decision had been made - you made an error.

Ole said to Peter, nailed him down again. LIAR. She included it. The error was yours. So, it's now an error NOT to mail someone repeatedly. Then perhaps the section on links should state HOW MANY mails people are supposed to send email to the CoS. Is it 3? 5? 40? --the recipient can now disregard the emails, and claim he never got "enough" emails. What constitutes "having told someone?" We need clarification on this, since sending an email apparently doesn't constitute "having told" you. Oh, wait, I forgot, we don't need that clarification. You were simply LYING, asshole.

Lap said. (the old one is a outdated version and has not been updated since Febuary because the thief who stole it does not know how to use the web). The web page you have linked since then is violating my copyright (I made all the graphics and all the Danish texts etc.) and the link will be dead soon because of my complaint to the provider. What he is doing IS against the Danish law. Kenneth, the guy who owns the web page you ARE linking has taken a strong stand against Satanism,...

Peter said: The link has been removed.

Ole said About time.

Lap said ...and has even tried to use my membership against me. I have a child with him, and he has tried to use my CoS membership to make the Danish authorities think that I am a unfit mother. If he was not such a kook he could have done some real harm. I told Peggy about this issue some months ago and she promised to find out if he had resigned from the CoS or not. It would have been good to be able to prove whether he was a member when he was trying to use my membership against me.

Peter said: It is the policy of the Church of Satan to NOT become involved in personal matters, such as marital squabbles.

SR NOTE: he could have told her if Ken was still a COS member for their legal issues. Gilmore has often told Tani who was and was not a COS member, and answered such queries IMMEDIATELY!

Ole said So that's why Peggy said she'd help? That's why you issued your Waffen SS post because a few people called the person in need of a face transplant FAT, or when they had personal matters with Peggy when they attempted to hack her answering machine? Oh, Kaiser Gilmore and Frau (Peggy) are different. They can bitch and moan about anything they don't need to subject themselves or others too, but when WE come back at those of the NY clique that throw the first, second, third, fourth and fifth stones at us, excommunication awaits.

SR NOTE: that's about right! NOW you got it!

Lap said. You KNEW that Kenneth was using my CoS membership against me in real life,

Peter said: This issue is none of my business.

Ole Said: Then why did Peggy say she'd help? LIARS, both of you.

SR NOTE: He refers to Peter and Peggy here (both). UH, none of their business? Then why do they spread rumors that Morena stalked Michael Boe (she did not) or tell tales about her current mate? Heh... can't have it both ways.

Ole said. Oh, a CoS member can use another person's CoS membership against her, and the organization won't do anything to help in such cases. Brilliant. You're siding with Christians now. One has to wonder why the CoS complains when non-members make religious harrassment against the CoS, but not when CoS members, who the CoS CAN do something about, do it.

SR NOTE: well, that depends on who's harassing who. Some COS members, just members (no titles) have the OK to harass. Others do not. Even the mere girlfriends of some COS members (like Hecate) can harass COS members with impunity. Hey, it smells to me like THE COS CULT IS AFTER YOU. CALL THE CHRISTIANS! Allies are ANYONE that can aid you when you are in adversity!

Lap said and you knew he had stolen the Web site.

Peter said Incorrect.

Ole said: LIAR. The email was appended.

Lap said: Nonetheless you didn't update your link despite my asking for it.

Peter See above.

Ole said Yes: LIAR.

Lap said Peggy said she would help me and then did nothing.

Peter said See above.

Ole said Yes: LIAR.

Lap said: Does any of this warrant your mentioning that I might want to resign?

Peter said. You leap to erroneous conclusions again. However, your current hostility does bring that possibility to mind.

Ole said: Oh, she's not allowed to be angry at Kaiser Gilmore when he fucks up, but you can bully her out of the blue? Subsequent events don't explain why you started, Peter.

Lap said Does any of this warrant your cautions of not having CoS hostile material on my web pages? No.

Peter said The only thing that warranted my cautions to you in my previous email is the fact that I have not viewed your site in quite some time, thus, I repeated facts concerning criteria for having links removed. Nothing more, nothing less. This seems to have "struck a nerve." They are on the official CoS website. There was no need to repeat them, especially not when you didn't bother to look at the site.

Ole said It was rampantly evident you were bullying her, and she threw it back in your fucking face. She's not the least scared by a nobody person with a nothing title in a non-organization that cannot even afford to buy its headquarter building. Now you're trying to lie your way out of it. There's one way out: down the tunnel.

Lap said So why are you telling me that? I didn't throw the first stone, you threw it out of the blue. Are you bullying me (you ARE!) because Ole is my boyfriend?

Peter said You jump to erroneous conclusions again, Ms. Lap. Informing you of criteria for link removal is NOT bullying, nor is it a "casting of a stone." You are apparently over-sensitive. Or, there is another, personal agenda at work here, which you are not making clear.

Ole said You never warned her about removing her link, she reminded you that you should update the link. If you had been sincere about not wanting to bully her, you would have phrased it something like: "we only remove links to people that are not members of the CoS or have CoS hostile material on their pages. Since you don't, ..." Instead, you had to bring up the qualifier that she's "currently still" a member, etc. I agree, there's a personal agenda at work that she didn't make clear. She didn't clarify YOUR personal agenda, which is well known now.

Lap said If so, let me inform you that it's none of your damn business who I see.

Peter said It is neither my concern nor my interest with whom you are having a relationship, now or in the past. If it was, I would have stated such.

SR NOTE: but he knows who everyone is having a relationship with. He wrote to Tani about Vincent Crowley's girl and knew all about that relationship giving HIS version of what Mrs. Crowley was doing. LIAR.

Ole said Tell that to LuciFur (Morena). You or Peggy told her she's on your shit list for knowing Audy Morgan, and I believe you didn't hesitate to mention this in your Waffen SS post either. LIAR.

Peter said I DID NOT. You jump to a false conclusion AGAIN. Your personal business with your current and past associates is none of my concern. I could not possibly care less about your personal life.

Ole said. So, who is lying, you or Peggy who said she'd help?

Lap said. The only ones I've heard about here in Denmark who CARE who their members talk with are Jehova's Witnesses, and even they seldom bully their members like that. Ole didn't have anything CoS hostile on his Web site when you removed the link to his page, nor has he resigned.

Peter said: Mr. Wolf was expelled from the Church of Satan by High Priestess Barton with the approval of the Council of Nine. His link was removed as he is no longer a member of the Church of Satan (see "guidelines for link requests" on the official website).

Ole said I'll wait for the explanation, then. Just out of academic interest, I'm curious if lawyers would think I was unrightfully expelled from the organization that charged a $100 registration fee. It cannot be my coming back at some CoS members on alt.satanism, because Chris Turner and John Davis weren't expelled for their campaign against Yigal Rabishu, who finally resigned from the CoS because of the treatment he received from those people.

SR NOTE: Yigal should get the ADL and charge the COS with organized anti-semitism.

Ole said It cannot be what I've said in private email to you either, because both you and Peggy have repeatedly reminded us that quarrels should be taken to private email. Do remember to tell Blanche that she has expelled me. And by the way, you're disclosing information about another (ex?) member to Corax.

Lap said: He says you didn't like his "War Cry of the Vanquished" essay,

Peter said: I have not read it.

Ole said: Well, then it cannot be anything else I wrote either, because it wasn't until after that essay was published you got hostile.

Lap said: and that it isn't CoS hostile but probably describes precisely why YOU joined the CoS originally (he says he felt a strange connection with you as he wrote it), and that you were personally offended and think this means it's CoS hostile.

Peter said: This above statement is mystical mumbo-jumbo (he "felt a strange connection with [me]" - what occultnik baloney). Mr. Wolf knows NOTHING about me, and his constant laughable attempts to analyze me simply project his own numerous insecurities, as well as his obsessions, for all to see (just like Michael Aquino, when he writes about his obsession, Anton LaVey).

Ole said: I wasn't analyzing you. If I were to analyze you, I'd say something like:

"Peter is the kind of person that always wants to improve himself using outside sources to fill up what's lacking inside of him. He will repeatedly be the 'New Peter,' defining himself by using potent phrases from books he reads, always TRYING TO BE something he's not, always wanting to be--not Peter." That many years in the CoS and you still don't have a clue about occultnik baloney? Ask Chaos, he may remember saying something about what he saw. Then again, he forgot so much of what's in my email from him. Nah, to be REALLY silly, I'd have to become a Modified Eyebrow Creature.

Peter said: So you AGAIN make a false assumption (that I read and reacted to some writing by Mr. Wolf).

Ole said: No, she didn't. Can't you read? OLE SAID.

Lap said: Again your IN-actions support a certain kind of people, the assholes.

Peter said: If you were so concerned about this link, why did you not make a follow-up email?

Ole said: What the Hell do you think her email was? LIAR.

Peter said: As stated above, I have no record of your prior email claiming that this link was compromised, nor did I visit this site after the time I made the initial link.

Ole said: LIAR. She appended the prior email. The fact you didn't visit the site to see if your links are valid shows you're an incompetent webmaster.

Peter said: It seems a bit late for you to be so bothered about this situation - many months have passed and you said NOTHING. NOW you whine. Why?

Ole said: Timing, Peter. Don't you know magic? Everyone's used to your inability to respond within a responsible time frame. Oh, sorry, I meant "everyone is used to being tested." Besides, she never even asked you to link to her page in the first place, and it wasn't even apparent from her Web page she's a CoS member, nor has she used the Baphomet or anything CoS related.

Peter said: We receive hundreds of pieces of email each day, so you should always follow up on a communication to us if you have received no response (quite a few pieces of email do not come through, or are "html only" and thus discarded).

Ole said: Sure. I'm quite confident that some emails strategically vanish in your inbox. What was it Peggy said in response to the email about Ken, did that vanish, too, or do you want yet another reminder?

Lap said: Please do your duty as a webmaster and keep track of the links on your web site, because that's what webmasters are supposed to do.

Peter said: I decide what my "duties" are, NOT you. Just as you determine your own "duties."

Ole said: Okay, then call it ABILITIES or RESPONSIBILITIES instead of duties. In any event, they're lacking.

Lap said As I said, if you don't want to update the link, then remove it so people don't think the page has been taken down when they follow the link from the CoS website. Everyone else--even Aquino on alt.satanism--knows the correct address, which is also the address which is registered in all the search engines.

Peter said As stated above, the link has been removed. I have no interest in reviewing your new site for a future link.

Ole said: That's a service to her, as a matter of fact. I'm personally quite satisfied to be disassociated from the NY clique by your decision.

Peter said: For your information: Having a link on the official Church of Satan site is a privilege, not a right. I decide who receives this privilege.

SR NOTE: cough, choke, LAUGH.

Ole said: Pretentious asshole. If not for the members' money, the CoS wouldn't exist.

SR NOTE: If not for the suckers that pay $100 for nothing, the cos would not exist. Start demanding your REFUNDS! I saw it done long ago when membership was $15. The guy GOT his money back.

Ole said. YOU decide it? Interesting! Guess it isn't a Church of Satan Web site, but a Kaiser Gilmore and Serfs Web site.

Amina signs: - Corax

Peter: Rege Satanas!

Ole said: Careful for what you ask for. You might get it. Sleep tight / the monsters under your bed don't bite.

PHG

----- Original Message -----

From: Corax To: nakived@juno.com

Cc: minas_morgul@planet.nl Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 10:12 PM

Subject: Fw: "Satanic Media Watch and News Exchange" has moved

Dear Tani

Here is another example of Peter Gilmore taking ages to process something.

The old link (http://users.cybercity.dk/~bkb1827) is still the one linked on the official page.

- Amina

HERE WAS THE APPENDED EMAIL.

----- Original Message -----

From: Corax <ccc44406@vip.cybercity.dk

To: <hpoelzig@ix.netcom.com

Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 12:09 PM

Subject: "Satanic Media Watch and News Exchange" has moved

Dear Magister Peter Gilmore

Me and Paimon wrote to you some time ago. Since then I have left Paimon with me and Paimons daughter. Paimon own our old E-mail account and the web space where "Satanic Media Watch and News Exchange" is located. Paimon has talked about leaving the Church of Satan and the grotto we both belong to (The Prometheus Grotto). He has also denied me access to the old location, so I have uploaded "Satanic Media Watch and News Exchange" to a new location. From now on, the location I will maintain will be located at:

http://users.cybercity.dk/~ccc44406/smwane/main.htm

I will continue the work I have done so far, but until the situation is solved for good, some of the projects will be slowed down. GM Hr. Vad and Ole Wolf know about the situation and have talked with both Paimon and me.

My new E-mail add is: ccc44406@vip.cybercity.dk

HS!

Corax/Amina Olander Lap

THIS IS A SAMPLE OF WHAT KINDS OF THINGS WENT ON IN THE CHURCH OF SATAN.

Regarding Sir Chaos in chat rooms and some of the SHIT that Church of Satan members engaged in because they all saw it was "the thing to do." Amina admits to doing this herself whilst in the Church of Satan.

Subject: More memories for Sir Disorder

From: "Corax" <ccc44406@vip.cybercity-nospam.dk>

Date: 2000/11/19

Newsgroups: alt.satanism

Who is Sir Chaos? Wolf asked me that several months ago when he had just begun to talk with Tani and the others, because he knows I've talked a lot with ppl in #coscentral when it was Ventrue's room. He only asks this question when Tani talks with ppl he doesn't trust. He asked me who Sir Chaos was because he wondered why Tani bothered to talk to that nobody and hoped he wouldn't get dragged into it. Since it looks like Wolf HAS been dragged into this, I want to say what I know.

I told him this: the only thing I KNOW about him is all the times I saw him try to enter coscentral/satannet. And everyone that ever visited those channels knows that. I think he got kicked more than once a day, everyday, for a year. He had made himself a pest in the room, and had become an enemy of Schlesinger and Lestat. He went there again and again, trying to enter the room when the service was down. He did that with the Coscentral/satannet room back then. It was no surprise to see him try to enter #satanmuse even when he knows he is banned. Same thing, different channel.

He has used less time bothering Tani than he used to bother Schlessinger and Lestat. He will keep on doing it until he find someone new he thinks is even more "evil."

Now Chaos tries to make up with his original enemies by attacking new enemies, pretending to play some game like the art of war, when everyone that saw his empty posturing considered him the master of the art of BORE.

Some months ago another user at #coscental asked me who the hell Sir Chaos was. He asked because Sir Chaos had been in the room and totally of the blue told about "how he was helping Tani," feeling oh so important and proven.

In the same way as Stewart's writing reminds me of how my fucked up ex wrote, Chaos' behavior reminds me of that guy. He was insincere to the core, he seemed as if weaving the image of a web of lies that anyone who dealt with him would fall into, and this web whirled around and was sucked down his throat, as if he wanted to swallow the spark of life in every living creature he met. That's who Chaos reminds me of, a person that no sane girl would want to stay with.

For a while I was living with that person, and was also loyal to the #coscentral ppl, because I was already sucked into that web of lies.

LISTEN TO THIS: #coscentral was a place where ppl would try to get innocent ppl to join the COS and to send in their personal info when they knew they would be kicked out immediately. I did this to some ppl as well, and it was awful. I did this because I thought this was what the COS wanted and others did it too. This is what the lies spun by Chaos' type does to a person, they make you do nasty things like that, all in the name of "us" vs. "them." Ppl were always trying to get personal info on others. When Schlesinger was after me, the officials told me that it was okay for Schlessinger to publicly trash me with no reason, because chatrooms had nothing to do with anything, and Schlessinger was a private person was just "having fun". Not related to CoS at all. But when others trashed Schlessinger and Lestat online they would be warned or thrown out of COS, Wolf was thrown out because of this and so was Margolin. [And Morena is on Peggy's personal shit list for this.] So the suck ups can do it but the true individuals cannot when they're attacked first. Sir Chaos is a suck up who can start more shit on alt.satanism when most others had stopped, and that's allowed.

Sir Chaos is a nobody in the real world who tries to be somebody in the chatrooms. This can be seen when he complained about his job on alt.satanism, compared to when Wolf just quit and found a better job when his boss wanted him to do the orders which Sir Chaos just followed and complained about online.

There you have Sir Chaos. Sir Chaos had to keep posting when almost everyone else had stopped bothering, even the Gidneys. He wanted to continue the shit-disturbing. He is a troublemaker, who attacks one party for a while, then finally when the party ignores him he finds another party to attack. He will never stop, his nature is to have someone to hate, to fight with, to attack, to use to stir up trouble. This is the kind of chaos he is, not in any magical sense but in the form of shit-disturbing, filthy disorder.

Corax