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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism,alt.music.black-metal
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of the CoE)
Subject: Re: Devils in the Belfry (was selling a soul)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 22:55:04 GMT

50010729 VI! om Hail Satan!

ordosclan (ordosclan@china.com):
>>>> No, this is wrong.  There is no soul to sell.  Love was often
>>>> considered "the soul", so when you lose "love" you enter a
>>>> world of "need and desire" which many consider "hell".  

boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of the CoE):
>> I happen to agree, which is why I say self your*self* to the Devil.

brendamobley666@excite.com (Brenda Mobley):
> What is a "self"?  I seem to have several layers and zones of mind and
> body.   

your entirety, your composite with which you identify. you talk about
contracts with allies below. this is what I meant. radical dualism is
not a necessary element of pacts with devils, demons, gods, whatever.

>experiences still less important than itself, and "I" wouldn't have
>the authority to barter it.  I might contract it to allies for a time.

there you go.

>But before we smile and put ourselves on the pedestal of wisdom, how
>do we know that our level of knowledge isn't just the same problem at
>some higher plane?  Does any honest person ever really give up a
>concept for good and evil?  If it's just a matter of finding a more
>grown-up set of definitions, this whole process, as important as it
>is, eventually finds completion.

dunno. I never accepted a hard-and-fast 'good and evil' set of terms.
my family was reticent to demonize and I saw quite a bit of that
going on amongst the religious I encountered (which was one of the
reasons I didn't become involved with younger -- now I'm more of an
independent and don't mind the interaction, but still oppose the
demonization).

>>what does talking about dealing with the Devil have to do with NOT
>>living for yourself? you seem to think it involves all those
>>Christian horrors. consider the possibility that the Christian
>>dualism-stories might not be accurate. there may be something
>>behind those centuries of Faustian pact-making and Crossroads
>>encounters that doesn't conform to quaint folk-tales about the
>>dupability of the Devil or the Torturous Fate awaiting those with
>>whom this being deals.
>
>The Christian dualism-stories are very accurate as a description of
>the universe these young ex-Christians actually live in.  They're not
>going to find the reality - the more True - while they're still caught
>up in this imaginary world.  They want to prove themeselves wrong, and
>that's when the cycle takes off.  Their tendency to contradict
>themselves would be laughable if it wasn't so invisible to the people
>doing it.
>
>So - if you're one of these people and you sell your soul to the Devil

there is more culture and history to it than just anti-Christianism.
selling oneself to the Devil at the Crossroads is an old ritual
activity that appears to have begun amongst African religious. it is
Christian cosmology integrated to pre-Christian religion, ethics,
and cosmology. sri catyananda did a bang-up job summarizing it:

	http://www.luckymojo.com/crossroads.html
and	http://www.luckymojo.com/devil.html

comments on this material welcomed.

>- you're pushed toward reality on one side, and grow closer to it. 
>The energies of what is wild inside you, and a connection with Nature,
>have a chance to enter in.  The clarity improves your life, you're
>happier, stronger and more competent - and because of your own
>classifications for things this makes you feel you've somehow floated
>right back up to God.  But now you're stressed again, trying to hold
>onto your new level of "goodness."  So you push it away again,
>redefine a Devil further away than the one you had before, and go
>through the cycle again.
>
>After a while you'll find where your real boundaries are, instead of
>confusing them with the imaginary restraints on yourself that you
>inherited from the Christian fantasy world.  If you want a pact with a
>real Devil it seems to me that it might help to burn out most of the
>cycle first, so that when you finally meet a real Devil, you can
>recognize it.  Also, so that when you meet the kind of Devil with
>which you *don't* personally want a pact, you can see that clearly
>too.

thanks for this thought. I'll roll it around in my mind for awhile
and come back if I have a more thorough response.

blessed beast!

boboroshi@satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director,
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)
Satanism Archive: http://www.satanservice.org/
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