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To: alt.religion.wicca.moderated
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:48:59 CST
Subject: Re: Wicca vs Witchcraft
From: "-A." 

RadiantMatrix wrote:
> The thoughtful -A. elucidated:
> 
>>RadiantMatrix wrote:
>>
>>>The thoughtful -A. elucidated:
> 
> --snip--
> 
>>>Any woman who can install Debian on her first try.... purrrrr. :P
>>
>>Making me jealous now.  If she can do that, she's outgeeked me in Linux. 
>>  Correction from my earlier sentiment: You're *extremely* lucky...
> 
> And you've made her blush - she lurks here from time to time.

Sorry...

> --snip--
> 
>>>I've noticed this too - partially, I think, it has to do with the 90's
>>>"hip to be a geek" fad.
>>
>>I don't think so.  If you look at the geek-related films of the mid 
>>90's, even at the pseudo-geek films (films in which the geek hero saves 
>>the world by using a Win95 gui, e.g.), you'll see that the depictions of 
>>geeks are nowhere near the true geek archtypes.  I think I made a 
>>comment to Yowie (I know I made it to someone, though I don't remember 
>>to whom) that I thought that the "popularity" of geekdom in the mid 90's 
>>was due to the "Internet Stock Bubble" and pseudo-geeks hiring every 
>>geek they can.
> 
> 
> Ok, you got what I meant somewhat backward, though your point stands. 
> What I meant is that the changing attitude of Geek-sub-F's toward
> brandishing their Geekdom has a lot to do with the 90's "hey, geeks are
> cool" attitude.  That attitude, as you say, was largely because suddently
> geeks made large amounts of currency.

Oh.  I see it now.  Allow me to retract my earlier "I don't think so" 
comment.

> 
> --snip--
> 
>>>>Pie Caffeine Domine, dona eis Jolt Cola!
>>>
>>>
>>>*big grin* Monty Python and Caffeine in one line: my hat's off to you sir!
>>> 
>>
>>Thanks.  I actually sing the more common variant (Pie Caffeine Domine, 
>>dona eis Strong Coffee) every morning as I am pouring my first cup.  The 
>>cashiers at the coffee shop/convenience store on campus have finally, 
>>after almost 2 years of my daily singing, started to sing along.  And, 
>>yes, I did come up with the Caffeine version lyrics.  You're all welcome 
>>to use them.  I've already got a small "Cult of the Singing, Pythonesque 
>>Caffeine Addicts" here and back in my home town and I see no reason 
>>against increasing our numbers...
> 
> 
> I've already started singing at work (since everyone is used to the usual,
> unaltered version streaming out of me at random times); though I adjust
> the last three syllables as appropriate (black coffee, espresso, etc.)
> 

Yes!

> --snip--
> 
>>>Mmmm... Daria.  The original popular (sort of) geek.  There's just
>>>something satisfying about being smug that makes the sardonic wit roll
>>>glibly (WHY is that word so hard to say?) off the tounge...
>>
>>She was quite popular. 
> 
> 
> Well, the *show* was popular, partially because the entire point was that
> Daria *wasn't*.  Hence my nervous use of the term.
> 

My bad.

> 
>>Now, however, they've cancelled the show, moved 
>>the reruns to air at 2am (EST) on a premium cable chanel for the 12-17 
>>age group and edited out at least 3 minutes worth of content per 
>>episode.  The effect is Diet Daria (complete with saccharine "house ads" 
>>in place of commercials).  True pity.  [Although, Tracy Grandstaff is 
>>still with MTV and still gives autographs to those who know who she is. 
>>  She has also been known to slip into her old character's voice on 
>>occasion.]
> 
> 
> I tend to randomly hug people who do impressive renditions of Daria.
> 
> --snip--
> 
>>>Actually, geeks have more honor (in the *traditional* sense) than your
>>>average carbon-based life form: there's a degree of art in code, and
>>>there's a feeling of competing against self that's wonderfully
>>>constructive.  Further, though competition among geeks is heated, it is
>>>rarely ill-willed - you'd hardly ever see a geek destroy a fellow geek's
>>>computer, game cards, etc.
>>
>>I take it you have read ESR's Portrait of J. Random Hacker, spec. the 
>>"Physical Activity and Sports" and "Religion" sections?  As for the 
>>willfil distruction of geek-related property, most of the geeks I know 
>>would sooner proclaim the advantages of Windows 95 than damage another 
>>geek's "toys".  I think it's because, deep down, we all know how we'd be 
>>if anyone ever damaged our own stuff.  Heck, I don't even let anyone use 
>>my computer when I'm standing over their shoulder watching them like a hawk!
> 
> 
> Methinks geeks have an inate understanding of "enlightened self interest"
> - you see it in the Open Source movement, security world, and even hacker
> cons.

Open Source, yes.  Security world?   Now that's just an oxymoron.   And 
I have yet to attend a so-called "hacker con": too many script kiddies, 
warez freaks, and other folk for whom hacking refers to the felonious 
arts of cracking rather than writing beautiful, efficient, poetic code.

> 
> Speaking of inate understandings, ever notice how geeks excel in
> philosophy?  I suggest this is a result of such things as being
> comfortable with "false" having several meanings (including, on occasion,
> "true").
> 

But of course.  However, I believe that our excellence in philosophy 
stems from our ravenous, omnivorous reading habits (someone once called 
my reading habits "tarrasque-like") rather than from our understanding 
of true/false(1)/false(2)/false(3).

> --snip--
> 
>>>However, I'm not primarily a hardware guy.  Now, if a grrl were to compile
>>>a cleaner kernel, or hack my network... I might be impressed, but she'd
>>>have to let me forget about that or it would never work. :D
>>
>>Exactly.  This should have been included in my original post on Rules to 
>>Live By to Get Along With Geeks:
>>
>>"If, by some strange happenstance, you should outgeek the geeks around 
>>you, do not, under any circumstances, rub it in for longer than is 
>>absolutely necessary to reaffirm your position as Ubergeek.  We tend to 
>>be quiet intricate, devious, crafty and unpredictable with our revenge 
>>strategies..."
> 
> 
> Also, geeks are very, *very* patient.  We might get you back in a few
> years. :)
> 

Oh yes.  Nothing like prolonging revenge so that our "victim" loses 
sleep for 5 years, waiting for the revenge plot to rear its ugly head.

> --snip--
> 
>>>Quite possibly, though pedantry scores pretty high too.  Most geeks are
>>>very precise people, and it irritates us when people are needlessly vauge
>>>or verbose.
>>
>>Or needlessly verbose about vagueries.
> 
> 
> You do this too?  I can't resist combining terms like that... it's almost
> a neurosis.
> 

I've been trying for years to come up with something on par with 
"nattering nabobs of negativism."  Haven't yet.  Of course, when I get 
really angry, I tend to utter a swear sentence in 5 languages (US Slang, 
  Brit Slang, Latin, Yiddish, Japanese)...  It really confuses the 
people around me!

> --snip--
> 
>>>Partially, but also that most men are actually so bent on machismo that
>>>they think they perform better than they do (or at least act like it). 
>>>Geeks tend to have much more honest opinions and encourage sexual
>>>dialogue.  Thus, if their partners are patient enough they end up with
>>>very good lovers.
>>>
>>
>>That's kind of what I was getting at, but in my case I tried not being 
>>too specific (Since I have no actual experience, I shouldn't be 
>>discussing this point...)
> 
> 
> Sexual "experience" is over-rated.  It's so much more fun to *learn* with
> your partner (or let them teach you things) than to be Mr. Experience.
> 
> --snip--
> 
>>>Well, you seem to have the art of conversation reasonably mastered - you
>>>know that geeks love to talk.  Find out enough about her interests that
>>>you can ask short questions with long answers. :)
>>>
>>
>>Yes.  I've done that.  I'm talking advice in making my intentions (or my 
>>hopes at any rate) known...
> 
> 
> You'll know when that's time.  Also, lit geeks tend to be fairly
> perceptive to romantic overtures (at least, IME).  It never hurts to
> invite her out for coffee.
> 
> 
>>>Also, find good poetry, and read it aloud.  That works with almost *any*
>>>female (and most males), but it has special meaning to lit geeks: esp. if
>>>you can discern a favorite author, or if you want to spark discussion
>>>about poetic interpretation.
>>
>>Hmm.  This is the second time today I've heard poetry mentioned in 
>>conjunction with the female geek-in-question.  Downside is that it's 
>>very hard to come up with the meter, rhyme scheme, stanza length, and 
>>verse style of C++/Java code (the one flaw with being a Code Poet is 
>>that there are no Poetry Readings that will accept you).
> 
> 
> Sad thing, that.  However, don't worry about writing your own.  Find a
> poem that is complex and may even escape your powers of literary
> interpretation.  Read it to her, and ask her what she thinks.  Not a geek
> alive will resist the opportunity to speak her mind - especially if it's
> invited.
> 

Good point.  Plus, my attempts at (non-code) poetry are really, REALLY 
bad.  Almost to the level of "Ode to a Lump of Green Putty I Found in my 
Armpit one Midsummer Morning" bad.

> Also, your personal interest will be noted, and you are likely to start a
> good friendship.  Friendship is, IMO, the best place to start romance.
> 
> Side note: if you ever pursue a gaming geek, it's actually ok to cast a
> love spell... in a D&D game.  Done right, it's wonderfully amusing!
> 

Huh.  Never had *that* in a game.  What happens?

> 
>>>Suggestion: avoid love/sex poems until you know her a little better,
>>>unless you know her well enough that she won't get the wrong idea. (Well,
>>>the right idea, but you know what I mean... :P)
>>
>>Yessssssss.   Not there yet, by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> 
> Best two words of advice for any potential relationship: just converse. 
> 
> --snip--
> 
>>>>Hurk!  Must fight visual!  Visual is winning!  Visual is winning!
>>>
>>>
>>>Muahahahahaha!
>>
>>To give credit where credit is due, this came from the absolutely 
>>brilliant webcomic "Something Positive".  If you like[d] Daria, check it 
>>out (www.somethingpositive.net).  I've interview the artist and he is 
>>definitely geek-friendly.
> 
> 
> Been there - quite amusing, in a twisted and sociopathic kind of way.
> 

Part of my daily diet of webcomics.  I think of it as a daily dose of 
cynicism, (mild) violence and misanthropy.  Quite the balance to 
UserFriendly.

> --snip--
> 
>>Umberto Eco.  He writes historical fictions.  His two most famous are 
>>_Focault's Pendulum_ and _The Name of the Rose_.  FP is about 3 editors 
>>at an Italian publishing house in the 1960s-1980s who stumble across 
>>(and invent) the grandest conspiracy theory of all time (involving the 
>>Templars, the Jesuits, Hospitaliers, and all of history from the 
>>Crusades up until now).  TNotR is about a murder in a monastery where 
>>the only witness is a peasant woman charged with heracy.  Also rich in 
>>history.
> 
> 
> Danke. So noted. It goes onto my *very long* reading list.  *sigh*
>  
> --snip--
> 
>>>And how... my favorites are "nitpickers", people who are so theatre/film
>>>geeky that they will pick out plot flaws, bad camera work, inconsistent
>>>staging, etc. and voice every flaw (quietly) during the performance.
>>>
>>>Great fun!
>>>
>>
>>Film geeks are actually great companions for any other type of geek.  My 
>>closest friend is a film geek and a Kubrick geek and a (*shudders*) film 
>>student at Emerson.  I've finally trained him to keep his opinions to 
>>himself until the credits start rolling.
> 
> 
> See, I would never train my film-geek friends that way: it's great the way
> they are!  If I want to see flick without the MST3K-type dialogue, I just
> don't invite them. :)
> 

MST3K is one thing, criticising camera angles is another.  What he says 
would fit a professional critic, not one of the 'Bots (as it isn't ever 
meant to be funny).  Plus, I've been kicked out of theatres for his 
remarks one too many times.

> Cheers,
> Radiant
> 

Blessed Be,
-A.

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