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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.occult,alt.religion.wicca,alt.pagan.magick From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (lorax666) Subject: Wicca and Magical Methods Date: 28 Feb 1998 18:51:40 -0800 49980124 aa2 Hail Satan! [some personals and technicals omitted; perm rec'd to repost public] #>about how these reframed perspectives are applied. # Mainly by maintaining focus & concentration on state of being # (physical, mental, emotional etc). Then when the information # about a given situation becomes known to the conscious mind, # in the moments, remain open to the experience & various # conclusions that arise, or put another way, not resisting the # new realizations, experiences, emotions, conclusions, etc # that arise. (Atleast that is where I am at these days...) # I usually find if I practise this way I do not need to perforn # formal ritual, except in rare cases. so it appears that ritual is for you a means of achieving mystical results and, having achieved it without formal rite, you can abandon this construct in favor of your learned internal process. # It is a good thing too, because maintaining the awareness often # takes a lot of energy. I observe my peaks & valleys, highs & # lows, ecstatic experiences & everything in bewteen with the most # objective view point as I am able. I think I understand now (if the above has any sort of accuracy). what I'd suggest is the possibility that external behavior eventually may shift to match the internal changes you are now causing and are going to effect if you continue your observations. it is possible you WERE 'in phase' to the social culture around you, yet if you continue to tune into what is actually happening within you, then I suggest you may unlock all kinds of natural rhythms and intuitive centers which will shift you 'OUT of phase' with your surrounding social culture. at that point you will begin a new Way, innovating along the course dictated by intuitive directives. I think this is how new and relevant religion is made. I know this process as Initiation (beginning), Orienting (or Grounding if you like), and Divination (activating change in conformity to the will). it starts as a purely internal readjustment and can terminate in the suffusion in the divine and the establishment of a completely new social order. it is the ascension to the Rosicrucian Office of the Magus as the revealer of the New Way (cf. Crowley in _Liber Aleph_ and in somewhat in _The Book of Lies_, where he mentions the various people he sees as 'Magi' like Mosheh, Lao Tse, etc.). # The underlying assumption is "the axiom as above so below" # or "the microcosm reflects the macrocosm" holds. # ...as a result of the axiom, perhaps as a result of the reality to which the axiom points. I've never heard it stated this way, btw. typically I've just heard the texts of Hermes Trismegistus (Hermetica) quoted direct, like: "that which is above is like that which is below." there are other religions whereby this kind of metaphysical principle has come about. Buddhism (Nagarjuna): "essence is not different than form, form is not different than essence." Judaism (some Kabbalistic book :>): "Malkuth is the same as Kether, only after a different order." # we can control or effect changes in the universe by knowing # ourselves very well & causing changes within ourselves. I suppose so, but I would caution against attempting to use oneself as the only tool of magick to effect the change in the world. rather, my suggestion would be attuning to the Goddess and God (or whatever you prefer to call the divine in your lives) and follow their directives about how to go about maturation (you may already be doing this of course :>). this allows us to see the changes which are important and we can use all manner of magical implements, including our minds/spirits if we feel the need, to accomplish this Great Work. # Note: I am not terribly interested in controlling that which is # outside of me. I am quite interested in knowing how the changes # I make in myself cause corresponding changes in myself & outside # world so I can make the best decisions about how to attain what # I desire & what further magickal techniques I want to employ. your will is your Way. what you say sounds excellent in regards mystical development but seems a weird and possibly dangerous magical enterprise where you begin shifting your internals just so as to effect external changes. but I'm not sure I truly understand you. if they are just thoughts that is one thing. if you are reconfiguring your values and emotions in a manner which puts you at odds with the gods for the purpose of obtaining your desire, I advise against it (I'm a fan of really getting to know the gods well and what they are about, of course). your approach appears very cautious and rational, in any case, so I'm sure you'll achieve marvellous results. #># awareness leading to the increased effectivity & ability to #># size up and handle situations in the best way possible.... #> sizing up, meditating, reframing, imagining -- these are all very #> important aspects of preparation. I don't think they are the gist #> of the magical work, however. #> I am not sure I agree. Perhaps you are farther along in the #> the practise of magick than I, or the gist of practise for me, #> is determining when it is worth preparing a formal ritual & #> when it is not. The work right now for me is to stay with the #> meditating, observing part of the self, while still experiencing #> my own life experiences. Besides, greater consvc I would describe myself as having some longer period of exposure to mystical disciplines. while I would class mysticism, if it becomes intentional, as one result of effective magick, I don't like to say that mysticism is the best or only goal of it, as some are wont (e.g. apparently Crowley, who talked about 'white' magick being the (best? and) mystical type). # ...the mechanism is that described by the microcosm reflects the # macrocosm. By making changes in ourselves we naturally alter # the world around us. I'm unsure that this is the case, but would not gainsay you. my mystical experiences have led me to see the truth of the identity of myself with all things. I am not one to separate out the nouns of the cosmos and say 'they are not I'. more I would say with my Thelemic brethren 'there is no part of me that is not of the gods'. # Gaining understanding of how our specific actions/magickal # operations effect ourselves & our outer worlds is key # because through such understanding we can choose what changes # we want to make, in the moments. absolutely. I find within my experiments/spellings/rites thusfar that such an understanding comes most quickly when brutal honesty and critical review are levelled upon the evaluation of all achievements. did I do that? was this my intention? or am I taking credit where it is not due? we can assist one another when we are more courageous by specifying to our kin what changes we wish to make and then having them reflect on the transition. there is a trap here that I guess I'm talking around. it concerns the process of pretention to power and, through self-deception (the reason many say this shouldn't be done without a teacher or guru, but I am dubious that this can or should be applied across the board), blowing oneself up beyond one's due. it happens all the time in the occult world and can be the source of no end of social dispute. it is one thing to state an intention and then to achieve it, especially repeatedly. to me this is the essence of the work of magick and conforms to the analysis levelled by the Master Therion in his _Book Four_ (Part III, 'Magick in Theory and Practice'). however, it is another to keep an eye on desire, watch where it meets up with the changes of phenomena and thenceforth take CREDIT for the change. this is one of the reasons why I think a relationship with the gods (demons/spirits) can be so important, since we can shove off any ego-inflating results by disclaiming that we were assisted by 'the will of the gods'. unfortunately this kind of deception game can become a source of rivalry among beginning magicians who take glamor for the entirety of the magical path. some need ego-nurturance (I know I have), and yet there are paths of danger along this route. # ...I usually find the focusing of one's mind on an outcome is # all I need to do to make a desired change. I want to discover # which levers I need to tweek in myself to cause the changes I # desire & I want to become aware of which impulses I need to # stop because I really do not desire those outcomes. my concern is that our desires can sometimes be immature. we can desire that a very important and essential element of ourselves and our lives comes to an end without having any conception of the role it plays in our lives generally. it is for this reason that I suggest observation and self-knowledge prior to the kind of self-tinkering approach taken by New Age and Chaos practitioners who immediately (through rite, psychoactives, suggestion, etc.) begin trying to operate their deep internals. consider the analogy of putting a baby in control of a high-powered laser. I don't know how much damage an individual is truly capable of doing to others aside from glamor and deceptive tricks, but the amount of damage she might do to hirself seems enormous to me. to illustrate my point, let me bring up something about which I know you will understand based on our previous exchanges. say that in my initial experimentation with mysticism I think that I discover a means by which I might come to rid myself of my 'negative' emotional responses. say I do not desire ever again to have to experience fear, anger, lust, rage, whatever it is that I think of as 'dark, evil, hurtful energies arising in my immaturity'. now this perspective that these arise in my immaturity is, I think, quite accurate in some cases, and yet in others it is just that I don't understand how beautiful and necessary these types of feelings and energies are to my health and welfare. by taking the initiative to REMOVE these 'negative and unwanted' energies from my life magically I can set myself back years in inner growth, repressing emotions and denying dynamics that I would have to have reframed and come to see differently (not just seeing it at all) in order to understand their value. # ...In order to understand the subconscious impulses I wish to # stop I work on making various bits of subconscious info # conscious, mainly through meditative & contemplative measures. # As you have pointed out in the past , sometimes we don't # really want to know all the data consciously, as may be the # case in childhood scars on my end. In these cases I may elect # to make a change without bringing all the information to my # conscious level (though conventional psycological theories on # healing tell you when you confront the scars on the conscious # level, you often can overcome/heal those psycological scars by # doing so when you are ready. yes, when we are ready. timing seems as important as configuration. part of the blessing of having a guide is that they can see from outside us and render grounding and orienting influence that is, one would hope, in our self-interest (rather than, as so often develops in religious groups, a disempowering counsel). # I agree with this approach because I have proved its validity to # myself.) # # ...I have used this approach widely over the last several years # to overcome the worst problems in my life. I can't really # objectively evaluate the methods because I don't know if I would # have solved all the issues below without practising any magick # at all (no blind study capabilities). in classical science, no 'control', yes. # I have been actively working on developing & maintaining # significant relationships with others & overcoming shyness # (divorce, but maintain loving relationship with X, WhiteOak- # I now have 4 students!!! involvemennt with various pagan # groups, much less fear when meeting new people for the first # time); overcoming scars from childhood (I did resolve with # my mother during the cancer experience, but I think there is # very little hope of resolving with my father in this lifetime); # overcoming various periods of unemployment (I am finally in # job with the title engineer & making more than 30K/yr); # overcoming cancer!!!!... your experience has broadened you as a person and you are an example of dedicated strength and successful weathering. I admire your endurance and your ability to withstand such difficulties. way to go, kin. ;> # Addtionally, in many cases, I had been trying for years to work # out some of these issues without success. When I started # applying these methods all of a sudden I started making changes # desired for years with great ease. this is an important insight, I think. the approach you have developed has freed up your will somehow so that you can apply it toward managing the severe challenges of your life and, I suppose, acting to prevent them from recurring where possible. this is a very important achievement, whatever its long-term significance (as you have said above). # >this relates to effect: detaching from a goal by focussing will upon # >its accomplishment and then trying to 'let it go'. this is a mystical # >effect (magick applied to internals). I wondered how you went about # >attempting to change the world outside you. # YES!!! This is the easy part for me!!! I develope a full # understanding of what I want. Allow the most complete image # of what I want to rise to my conscious mind. Intuitively work # with the image until it feels right, ibn the flow, of the TAO... # Then focus all my desire on the image... Bring my desire to # peak, in sort of an emotional projection of my desire to the # universe, with the desire & image defined in terms of me/the # microcosm... Go about my life projected desire. it is in some ways like a prayer, a communication of desire to the unconscious and/or divine realms, to the zones of power and change. one of the reasons I was asking about methods was also because there are many different methods that people use to achieve these types of results -- some are especially intended to communicate with unconscious realms as understood by modern psychological theory, coming to see how it best understands our expressions, what it could get confused about, etc. # Take mental note of the desire when it arises, & observe # magickal effects as they arise... watch out for ripples!! what do you mean here by "ripples"? # ...don't resist when issues arise I did not think, work out # the new issues in the same contemplative way this strikes me as a very effective method, yes. blessed beast! lorax666 -- tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (emailed replies may be posted); 408/2-666-SLUG http://www.abyss.com/tokus FUCK http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi
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