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To: alt.divination
From: tyagi mordred nagasiva 
Subject: What Wiccans Don't Believe (9406.wicbelf.tn)
Date: 49940615

Quoting: |ayla@inferno.com 

|We as Wiccans or Wicca, or Wicce, do not believe in
|Satan or the Devil.  

I had no idea that Wicca had suddenly become doctrinal, though
I do know that there are many Wiccans who don't like anything
to do with what they perceive as 'Christian', even though the
most strident Wiccan trads are firmly-based Gnostic spinoffs,
cloaked in neuvo-pagan guise.

I'm not a histophile, so don't bother flaming me because you don't
like that I'm identifying the Neopagan resurgence as such.  I like
new religions, like Wicca and Subgenii and Discordianism.  I tend
to prefer we move away from both doctrinariness and what I perceive
to be the overvaluation of 'facts' and 'history' (hey, I'm an elf,
what do you expect? :>).


|Rule number 12, and I quote:

Here's where I get the willies.  "RULE # 12"???  I mean, I knew that
the Craft, so-called, had devolved to the point that the Wiccan Rede
was becoming the 'Wiccan Law', but now you've got a Rulebook???  Ewwww.


|"We do not accept the concept of absulote evil, nor do we wsorship any
|entity known as "Satan" or "the Devil", as defined by the Christain
|tradition. we do not seek power through the suffering of others, nor
|accept that personal benefit can be derived only by denial to another".

This sounds remarkably like CAW trash or some sort of formal declaration
from Christian-fearing tribes.  Care to identify the source of this ick?


|We, as a group, or member, or what have you, are peaceful people,
|wanting only to practice what we are.  To practice what we know, are
|learning.

Cudos!  Glad to hear this.  See, I'm not really an ogre. :>
I don't think it is true in all cases, but that is my problem.


|Being born and raised in a Catholic family, and church, I found NO peace
|in the church, in your God, in your beliefs.  I found only trouble,
|strife, unrest, political problems, and a general dislike for others in
|the church.  Now, this is just MY experiance.  

Ah, but it is typical of the common Neopagan, and you wonder why you take
so easily to Wicca. :>


|I wonder sometimes about all these religions that say "Only through Jesus
|Christ will you be saved", why they feel its so nessasary to come to us
|Wicca's and Pagans and preach to us. 

They do it because they are uncertain of their own faith and/or it is
part of their practice to harass (ooops, I guess they call it 'witness to')
those of a different cadre.


|We harm NONE.  It's one of the first rules of our Rede.  

Look more closely at the word 'harm' and then at 'rede'.
I think you'll find that you must kill to live and that a rede is a guide-
line, not a law or rule, not to mention that it doesn't contain rules.


|If I have done my research correctly, it was
|the Christains that pursected us in the 1600th century.  

You have not done your research correctly.  At least you didn't start to
spout about 900 million deaths.

1) The correct spelling is 'Christian', and this refers to 'Christ',
   which is a very important esoteric teaching in Western religion.

2) Europe was the hotbed of persecution by the Roman Catholic Church
   during the time you imply (if memory serves), yet it is hard to
   say how much responsibility lies with the people outside the Church:
   turning in people, actively participating in the redistribution of
   property to the Church, etc.

3) That's the 16th century (17?), not the 1600th century, which has not
   yet come to pass.

4) There is no 'us' and 'them' when it comes to European trads.  I know
   that it will burst bubbles, but the Christian and Pagan faiths were
   so intermingled by the 1600's that nobody can now make reasonable
   requests for restitution (no matter how much Otter and company want
   to argue to the contrary).  


|I have yet to hear of any Wiccan or Pagan person pursecting *anyone*.  

You haven't looked hard enough.  Check out the way that CAW feeds the
rabid Christians more 'Satanism' scare-trash and thus diverts the attention
of the authorities to a (supposedly) lesser sect.

I've also noticed that many Neopagans (Wiccan or no) are quite fond of
venting their closeted frustrations about Christianity onto anyone
within their tribes that expresses sympathy for that lofty and vulgar 
tradition.  I'll not excuse its evils, but I note that if I say that
I consider myself Christian *as well as* Wiccan (I don't know what a
Neopagan really is yet, though I share most of the values), or if I
wear my cross ear-ring to the circle, sometimes I get shat on by the
local wounded.


|Maybe the Christain religion can learn from us... again?  I think so.

Maybe we can all learn not to so divide ourselves and generalize.
I doubt it, based on track record.  Arrogance is rampant.


|Ayla

Lovely name, by the way.


tyagi the evil wiccan
tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com