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a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.magick.order,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick.tantra
From: rrosen@lark.cc.ukans.edu (Goddess in Training)
Subject: Re: High versus Low Magic(k)
Date: 30 Jun 96 14:35:33 CDT
Wizard (wizard@primenet.com) wrote:
: In article <1996Jun28.200312.121896@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,
: rrosen@lark.cc.ukans.edu (Goddess in Training) wrote:
: >Well, ceremonial magick (in its *roots* at least, not necessarily in its
: >current forms) is patriarchal and hierarchical, but then so is Wicca;>
: >--'--,-{@ --,--'-{@ --'--,-{@
: >Renee Rosen
: >rrosen@lark.cc.ukans.edu
: >Goddess in Training
: Renee, as a "Goddess in Training," don't you think you should do something
: like supporting your statements with some sort of evidence?
Well, first off, notice the winkey--that statement wasn't meant as
totally serious. But, for those who are humorously challenged, I'll
attempt to explain.
Note I said roots, and not current practice. Modern ceremonial magick has
the majority of its roots in hermetic and Kabbalistic practices, which
were melded with Freemasonry (not necessarily in the *practices*, but in
the structures of their organizations). Most of the early practioners of
CM were male--hence, the "patriarchal." Most CM lodges are
hierarchical--hence, the hierarchical reference.
As for Wicca, it was invented within this century from the same sets of
traditions as Ceremonial Magick. Gardner was a Co-Mason. He drew from the
same hermetic and Kabbalistic imagery. Also, his conception of the God
and Goddess has more to do with hermetic traditions (the union of the
male and female principles, for instance), than with any ancient pagan
religion. As for the "patriarchal" part, again, we have a tradition
founded by a man, with many (but not all) of its early participants being
male. Also, Graves was a big source for early Wiccan thealogy, and he's
definitely sexist and patriarchal (along with being incredibly
heterosexist, but that's another thread). The conception of the Goddess
in *early* Wicca is incredibly patriarchal, IMHO. And Gardnerian Wicca is
certainly at least as hierarchical as CM, if not more so.
Of course, none of this historical background has anything to do with
whether modern CM or Wicca is patriarchal or hierarchical, merely that
both movements share similar, and in some cases, the same roots, and that
the accusation of patriarchal and/or hierarchal could be applied to both.
--'--,-{@ --,--'-{@ --'--,-{@
Renee Rosen
rrosen@lark.cc.ukans.edu "Was I a witch?
Goddess in Training In the dark days, I heard
Astrud and Astarte on irc voices . . ."
http://lark.cc.ukans.edu/~rrosen --Art Bears
@}-,--'-- @}-'--,-- @}-,--'--
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