THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
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To: alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.religion.wicca,tx.religion.pagan,alt.religion.all-worlds,talk.religion.misc
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer)
Subject: Scratch the CAW!!! (Was Re: Scratch bids Adieu)
Date: 13 Jun 1996 18:35:25 -0700

kaliyuga
49960613 AA1 "you're a mean one"

"Mr. Scratch" :
|...the Church of All Worlds anti-Satanist publication _Witchcraft, 
|Satanism and Occult Crime_.  

if anyone has the ascii of my review of that document, please post 
them or email them to me.  thank you.


|...the issues presented here have been informative, purposeful, 
|and at times even entertaining.

mostly I think people consider it a nuisance. :>


|...the frozen tundras of Alaska for a few months...

fare well, Mr. Scratch!  we will miss you and your ascerbic wit!
come back safe and tempered.

 
|...I find it dubious that anyone could claim to read _WSaOC_ and 
|emerge with a positive image of Satanism.  

the danger is not so much with those who read extensively or who
will really get the detail down.  the danger is that this type of
propaganda will be used to get someone fired from their jobs (it
may already be happening) or other unnecessary violence played out 
along political and legalistic lines, when all of the hysteria
(and I agree we assist it supporting it through posting here)
could be reduced by exposing generalities about what 'Satanism' and 
'Satan' tend to include (since this appears to vary considerably!).


|Those I know who have read it (not just Satanists either) have 
|made it clear that they think it is incendiary and hateful rubbish.  

I think it will be seen this way within Usenet for quite some time,
and I'm sorry that other contents (like Aquino's letter!) couldn't
be added to the fray, perhaps with one from Uncle Anton and whole
batches of other Satanists describing what they're about.  It might
become a REAL service to the occult community instead of what it is.
a damn shame.


|...WE despise it.  I'm not just talking about myself here -- 
|Satanists who have read the book have denounced it, everyone from 
|the more conservative organizations such as ToS, to the rebel-Satanist on 
|the fringe, Tyagi of the House of Kaos.  

take note that while I despise its slant and limitation I appreciate its
fertility.  it should be pelted with the condemnation it truly deserves 
and perhaps from all sides at once!  sins and stones!  sins and stones!
now you roll that all up, put it under 'Satanist Interrogation Newletter' 
(SIN)' and I'll support it, even advertize it on Usenet for you. ;>

THAT will demonstrate the kind of open-mindedness which Neopaganism 
includes.


|We regard _WSaOC_ as some kind of modern-day _Mallus Maleficarum_, 

a bit strong for me.  I just see it as a means of redirecting public
condemnation to those who are more prepared to accept it (perhaps
playing volleyball for a while until the potatoE gets too hot (YEEOWCH!).
CATCH!


|this time aimed at Pagans from OTHER PAGANS, and we want it stopped.

there is no honor among the wikkunz, they say.


|...your presentation of [Satanists] in _WSaOC_ is wholly unacceptable.  

agreed.  behind this we may rally.


|It is your responsibility to acknowledge this, acknowledge the errors 
|of the past approach and work to find a more agreeable alternative.  

I don't agree.  I figure it as their task to see how long they can put
up with the public pressure before they change things (likely by merely
discontinuing publication if law is called in or there are repercussions
in counter-terrorism).


|Will you make the process difficult and painful for both sides?  

too late.


|Or will you and your CAW compatriots endeavor to correct your failings?  
|Time will tell.  

told.


|While I know you will have a great difficulty admitting this to 
|yourself, you should consider that your spitting and hissing like 
|an overgrown Gila monster has only made your case look worse.  

I agree (I'm NOT a yes-man! :>).


|It would be far better for everyone if you took a more reasonable 
|tone and worked to compromise

From what I hear this is true all around, yes.  :>  sometimes a bit of
heat brings the blood to the fore, however, and we can discover very
neat things about the people so engaged (such as their actual feelings
about the issue, how involved they are really in the object, etc.).


|...Catherine also claims that public outrage will do nothing to influence 
|the CAWs actions.  

outrage is for its OWN benefit.  what do we need of the CAW??  TRASH the
publication and the CAW by telling of its hypocrisy.  continue to make
known the tactics they are using and bring this up in every public place 
where it is deserved (esp. the Satanist).


|...my presence here has been an example of "good-cop/bad-cop"; 

hehe, you were the bad cop to my (and they thought I was bad! :>) 'good'
cop!


|...a group of Satanists preparing to approach the CAW to see if they 
|are prepared to budge on this issue 

good luck with that.   show your heart and you shall be victorious.


|...Writing the CAW itself is great, especially in numbers...but let's 
|not forget that the [he said "accusations" but I'd revise to "testimonies"]
|must be kept out in the public eye for all to see.  Keep in mind that it
|was the effort to appease a hostile public that led to the publication of
|_WSaOC_ in the first place! 

thus it like a plague, one people preying upon another, endlessly attempting
to avoid the pain, tediously continuing it through negligent ignorance.
their email address is ****cawnemeton@netcom.com****.  send email, complain
about the book once you've seen it or excerpts from similar forums.


|I also urge Pagans to give close examination to CAW claims that Paganism
|is always nature-centered, communal, feminist, peaceful etc.  

VERY wise.  you've put emphasis on what I'd say are its more important
pulse-points.  I gather there are some communal, feminist and peaceful
things about it, and I'm undecided as yet regarding its nature-centered-
ness.  My experiences with CAW outside discussion of this publication 
have been very nice. :>


|...an idea that was _alien_ to our ancient pagan forefathers/mothers. 
|The idea is one of "heresy"; the fostering of an exclusive and dogmatic
|set of religious requirements by which to divide the "true" Pagans from
|the "false" ones.  

gotta be done sometime, especially if you really want to go 'legitimate'
in this kind of society (one with rules, laws, social customs which
involve these, etc.).  for this reason I'm unsure I can really do that,
seeing as I may be asked to make promises I don't think I can keep. ;>
so go on, define your religion if you like, define me right out of it.
I really don't mind that at all.  but when you sit in your home and
define others for them it becomes somewhat absurd.
  

|...urge [you all] to strenuously reject this game of three-card monty 
|[between 'Real Pagan', 'False Pagan' and 'Undecided'], and maintain 
|Paganism as an *inclusive* and accepting branch of belief, 

whoops, can't do that Mr. Scratch, because Neopagans don't tend to
share all that much consistently within their beliefs.  so it can't
be a 'branch of belief'.  it could be a system of practices which 
do or don't include certain elements (don't include Judeochristian
elements, for example).

you can support its continued inclusivity as long as it REMAINS 
inclusive, of course.  we have no idea how long that will last.
there is already argument for 'standard definitions'.


|...An attempt to hammer Paganism into a dogma endangers not only 
|Satanists, but Ceremonial Magicians, military Nordic-types, 
|Left-Hand Path Initiates, TOPY-types...everyone down to the 
|intellectual Wiccan who refuses to go along with the program or 
|their bizarre "morality".  Reject it. 

I'm unsure that this is what is happening here, but I tend to agree.

"Nice things come from the shadows.
Sometimes those big scary shadows 
   are made of little things.
And they don't have to be scary at all.
If we just understand what makes the shadows,
we won't be scared anymore!"
     (Barney the Purple Dinosaur)

BE VERY VERY SKIRD

nocTifer
tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
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