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Proposed Composite a.r.w. FAQ for Comment, 2/4

From: (Lorax)
Subject: Re: Proposed Composite a.r.w. FAQ for Comment, 2/4
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 11:09:45 -0700 (PDT)

Kali Yuga 49950505  [erisian delight!  5s ahoy!]

|From: (Rain)
|Date: 29 Apr 1995 08:30:44 -0700
|Newsgroups: alt.religion.wicca

Reposted, group-reply, added alt.magick.tyagi.

|Hear ye the words of the Star Goddess; she in the dust of whose feet are
|the hosts of heaven, and whose body encircles the universe....

I like this type of beginning.

|This list of Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) is designed as an
|introduction to Wicca and to this newsgroup as well as a reference for
|those investigating the religion of Wicca for the first time.

Excellent contextual assignment.

|1.1)  What is this group for?

|newsgroup for the discussion of Wicca, also known by some as Wicce,
|Goddess Worship, the Old Religion, Witchcraft (with a capital "W") ...

I'm not sure I understand why the distinction between 'witchcraft' and
'Witchcraft'.  I'll watch for elaboration.

|1.2)  What is Wicca and how is it related to Paganism?

|its popularity among feminists and others seeking a more woman-positive,
|earth-based religion.  Like most Neo-Pagan spiritualities, Wicca worships
|the sacred as immanent in nature, drawing much of its inspiration from the
|non-Christian and pre-Christian religions of Europe....  

Looks great as far as content.  I would rephrase anything that says 'Wicca
does X' to 'Wiccans do (or tend to do) X'.  Thus in the above I would say
'Wiccans tend to worship the sacred as....'.

|and hearkens back to times before the spread of mono-theistic (one god)
'Monotheistic' is one word, I think, no hyphens.

|...Although many Wiccans may consider themselves Pagans or Neo-Pagans, 
|not all do; nor are all Pagans and Neo-Pagans Wiccans.

I like this caveat.

|2   Basic Orientation

|2.1  What are some basic beliefs in Wicca?
Suggestion: instead of basic either 'common' or 'common basic'.

|...As a whole, Wicca values balance with a respect for
|diverse complexity, not seeing sexuality as wrong or humanity as "fallen."
|There is a sense of personal connection to the divine life source, which
|is open to contact through "psychic power," mysticism or "natural magic." 

Change 'Wicca values' for 'Wiccans value (or tend to value) balance with...'.

The sex-negative and human-fallen things are typical wrt Christianity and
this appears to be the point of the above text.  I would take that part out
as overly reactionary or restate like: 'seeing sexuality and human nature as
essentially pure and perfect elements of the spiritual life'.

|2.2  What god(desse)s do Wiccans worship?
|     Although some Wiccans focus on particular gods from particular world
|mythologies, Wiccans may worship many god(desse)s by many different names.
|Most worship some form of the Great Goddess and Her consort, The Horned

While I appreciate the breadth taken here in survey, I wonder (I don't know
enough about the gods yet) whether 'The Great Goddess' always has a Horned
Consort.  It could be taken that the above text implies that She does.

|Such duo-theistic forces are often conceived of as embodying complementary 
|polarities, not in opposition.  

Syntax quibble: 'duotheistic forces are often conceived as embodying
 complimentary polarities, not those in opposition.'

|In some traditions worship
|of the Goddess is emphasized, although in others the Goddess and God are
|seen as complentary co-equals....  
I think that this (though meant to be 'complimentary') may be unnecessary,
since you mention complementary polarities above.

|...but there are no hard and fast rules.  

Thank you for this.

|2.3  What tools and rituals do you use?

|The meaning of these items, their use
|and manufacture will differ between traditions and individuals. Usually a
S/b 'among'.  'Between' implies a pair.

|2.4  Is there a set liturgy or liturgical calendar?

|...There is no one bible or book of common prayer for all Wiccans, however, 
|and great value is placed on creativity, poetry and the artful integration 
|of different myths and ritual elements. 

Again, thank you for this.  I think what you have written is lovely.

|2.5  What is basic Wiccan thealogy?

Does thealogy include mythology?  Hmmm, I am unsure.  'Mythology' seems to
imply a classification of *another religion's* thoughts about their deities:
what they did/were/became.  'Theology' seems more often to be associated
with rational attempts to explain one's relationship with one's *own* god,
the nature of one's *own* god, etc.  Perhaps I'm being persnickety. ;>

You may wish to consider the conflation of 'myth' and 'thealogy' here, tho.

|...Another thealogical point held in common by many
|Wiccans is the *immanence* of diety/divinity within the natural world and
S/b 'deity'.

|cycle of the seasons.  This places value on the earth and this world, as
|distinguished from views of transcendent divinity and an unenchanted
|creation.  Wiccans as a whole are very much "into" cycles:  of life, of
|the moon and seasons. Cyclical change as an erotic dance of life, death
|and rebirth is a popular theme in Wiccan imagery, ritual and liturgy. 
|(_Thea_ is Greek for "goddess," by the way, so "thealogy" is not a typo
|here, but a way of emphasizing the Goddess.)
I recommend that in your comments (rather than your characterizations)
you refrain from an over-emphasis upon the transcendant usage of the term
'the Goddess', *especially* where you've just emphasized the favor that
Her *immanence* has with many Wiccans (supposedly).

|     Wiccans often distinguish themselves from Satanists by emphasizing
|this immanence and preferring a complementary view of divinity to an
|oppositional one.  

Honestly, I don't see the value in this sentence.  Not only do several
Satanists (myself included) find value in the Lord of THIS World (i.e.
seeing that Satan and Nature are one), but you are again beginning to
describe the exclusivity of certain Wiccans where the path of Wicca
need not incorporate this.

I would suggest instead (perhaps here in 'thealogy') that some Wiccans 
do have certain thealogical preferences and will occasionally attempt to 
use these to distinguish themselves from other traditions.  This gets 
away from saying what Satanism or Christianity *are*, while making it 
clear that some are indeed less eclectic and all-emcompassing than the 
evil wiccans. ;>

|They may distinguish themselves from Christians in this
|view of immanent divinity and an embracing of ambiguity and polytheism
|(many gods).  

Yeah, right.  'The Goddess' is LESS immanent, thealogically, then 'God',
whose name 'God' is intended to supplant or represent.  'The Goddess' is
the composite of the world's feminine divinities where as 'God' is often
taken to mean the Author (sometimes neither male or female or both) of
All.  In this way I think that your argument regarding immanence and the
embracing of 'ambiguity' is somewhat specious.

Now does this apply to typical Wiccan thought?  Probably, but I don't
this is something to be promote or defend within the FAQ as something
distinguishing Wicca from 'other religions'.

|Unlike the Jewish, Christian or Islamic traditions, there is
|little emphasis on interpretation of "scripture" or a revealed text, 

This is a very important issue to address, especially within the West.
The lack of agreement (as yet) wrt 'scripture' and the relationship
with revelation are quite significant differences which many Wiccans have
with their surrounding culture (perhaps in reaction).  My addition
here would be that for the typical Wiccan scripture amounts to one's
Magical Record (in Wiccaspeak the 'Book of Shadows') and I do think
that there is (ought to be? :>) emphasis placed on interpreting this
Book for oneself, some of it indeed being revealed script.

|and although many Wiccans may believe in some sort of reincarnation, 
|they may distinguish themselves from Buddhists in seeing life as a 
|journey or adventure without any desire to "leave the wheel" of rebirth.  

I was discussing this issue (reincarnation/rebirth) with a few of my
Wiccan Elder friends and there does appear to be 1) a distinct lack of
discussion surrounding the definition of 'reincarnation' within Wiccan
groups and 2) a difference between Wiccan reincarnation and Buddhist
rebirth (the two words being different for good reason).

Thealogy is less important to most Wiccans, I think, than it is to other 
major religions.  I.e. there is less comparative intellectual discussion
(perhaps outside this forum) than is to be found in at least Christianity
and in Buddhism as well.  Perhaps this is in reaction to the pains of
having felt proselytized as the Christian birth pangs of so many Wiccans
makes this difficult to consider intellectually (perhaps the word-change
to 'thealogy' (is this truly the feminine of the term or is it unnecessary
since 'theos' is not masculine?  -- I'm not linguist) indicates this quite
tender attitude to the entirety of intellectual comparison, the philosophy
of comparative exchange in mutual respect still unknown to new Wiccans).

It should be said, however, that many Wiccans (and other Hermetics), think
of 'all this' as a School, in which we are here to 'learn our lessons'
before 'moving on' to the heavens of happy romping or to some 'greater
unknown'.  In this way some Wiccan thealogy does approach the Indian desire
to get 'out of here' (Hindu yogis have a similar ideal in 'moksa').  

Beyond this, not all Buddhists see 'the Wheel (of Samsara)' to be 'this
world', some of us taking it to mean the round (a type of carousel) of
attachment and detachment from material 'things', and that 'getting off
the wheel' does not necessarily mean 'leaving this plane of existence'
but can simply mean assuming a nonattached relationship with the world.

|Like Hindus, Wiccans may pride themselves on their tolerance for other 

Other than Christianity, other than Satanism.  There is historical
prejudice against both of these, perhaps Islam and maybe Judiasm, but
the last is less the case.

|like Buddhists they may value personal insight and like Taoists they may
|seek to align themselves more perfectly with nature.  Some Wiccans may
|distinguish themselves from the "New Age" in their value for both "light"
|and "dark" aspects of existence (embracing both life and death), a

|do-it-yourself attitude and a distrust of money, hierarchies and gurus. 

Wow, there's a lot to discuss here.  I would change little beyond 'gurus',
in which I would place the word 'priests' to keep it Western and compre-
hendable.  'Guru' has a quite deprecatory meaning in Western culture,
being associated with 'cults'.  This is an unfortunate development in some
ways because the chela/guru relationship can be very transformative, and
the 'cults' of which this is said are often devotional religious sects
who DO view the divine as perfectly and wholly immanent, manifested most
concretely in the form of their guru (cf worshippers of Krishna).

|2.6  What are Wiccan ethics, the "Wiccan Rede" and "three-fold law?"
|     There are no ten commandments in Wicca, but there are some common
|expressions such as the "Wiccan Rede" and the "three-fold law."  According
|to most versions of the three-fold law, whatever one does comes back to one
|thrice-multiplied, kind of an amplified karma.  
'Karma' is a Sanskrit word with a variety of meanings even in the East.  In
the West it has taken on moralistic and retributory significance within a
system of Cosmic Justice ex deus.  That is, I caution your usage of the term
here, especially without first defining what many Wiccans mean by it.  There
are popular notions of its meaning which may or may not apply, and if one is
an historian or fond of comparative religion, this may prove confusing.

| analogy to the "golden rule" of other faiths.  
I suggest that another word than 'analogy' be used here.  Perhaps noting
the similarity of focus upon treating one's neighbors or friends with
care, as ourselves.  The Golden Rule is a moralism.  The Rede is a 
guideline.  That is, the Rule is intended (popularly) to be a goal and
derived from the divine unto Man.  The Rede is intended (at least among
some like myself) to be an ideal and guide and derived of ourselves as
the divinity.

|...There are no
|universal proscriptions regarding  food, sex, burial or military service
|and Wicca, as a rule, discourages proselytization (trying to convert others
|to a different religion).

Again, I would say that 'Wiccans, as a rule, discourage proselytization...'.

Why bother stating what there are no universal proscriptions regarding if
*there are no universal proscriptions*?  I.e. unless you are thereafter
going to specify what proscriptions there ARE (good luck), why specify these
things except after having read the Military's classification of Wicca? :>

|3  Wiccan Beliefs and Practices
|3.1  Can I be a Christian/ Jew/ Muslim/ Buddhist/ Taoist/ Astrologer/
|        Druid/ Shaman/ omnivore/ whatever and a Wiccan?

|...there is no Wiccan proscription of such things....  

Nicely said.

|3.2  What are "dedication" and "initiation" in Wicca?

|...Valiente and others assert that those who choose to "bootstrap" a coven 
|into existence (by an initial initiation) or to use self-initiation may do 
|so, citing the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.  

I'm unsure that, since Valiente (and whoever else) is not the Papess of
Wicca, her pronouncement that people 'may bootstrap' is of any relevance
aside from a popular Witch's (lukewarm) testimony regarding self-initiation.

Some Wiccans claim that Witches can only be made by the OLD GODS, and by
this we mean the deities (or their duly appointed representatives) of
wrath, age, mystery.  Not the Maiden/Mother or Corn Lord, but the Lord of
the Underworld, the Crone, the Warrior Bitch who shall chop open our heads
and insert the Seed of Pure Knowing there, not unlike the crystals placed
in the foreheads of the citizens of the movie 'Zardoz'. ;>

What matters this 'Universal Declaration of Human Rights'?  Why did
Valiente cite it?  What sway should this have over any Witch?  Why does
Valiente say anything but 'if ye claim ye be a witch I'll abide the
Rede with ye, and proclaim the worship of the Old Ones in ways meet and

|Self-dedications are also quite common among new practitioners and 

What is a 'self-dedication'?  How is it different than 'initiation' by
oneself or a group?

|3.3  Do all Wiccans practice magic/k?

|     That depends on what one means by magic.  The occultist Aleister 
|Crowley helped re-popularize archaic spellings such as "magick", terming
|his "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with

Well done!!

|...Others may cast love spells or other curses but no, we don't do it for 
|strangers on the net and yes, we don't confuse this with stage magic.

I recommend taking out everything after and including 'but'.  Some actually
*will* cast such spells for strangers, even on the net, and some *do* see
the concentricity of stage magic and spell magick (see, 'magic' is contained
*within* magick! :>).

|3.4  Is Wicca the same thing as witchcraft?

|...Although many Wiccans today may cast spells and practice
|magic/k, these are not considered an integral part of Wicca by all Wiccans.
|Wicca is not traditional folk magic and all magic is not necessarily

Nice conservatism.  I like it.

|3.5  What were "the Burning Times?"

|...Whatever the numbers, however, victims of these hunts are perceived as 
|martyrs by Wiccans today and this terrorism strongly remembered.

Well said!

|3.6  What are the origins of Wicca?

|...Aidan Kelly argues that modern Wicca was largely pieced together by 
|Gerald Gardner from Margaret Murray, Charles Leland and other sources, 
|with significant revisions by Doreen Valiente (and others) beginning in 

You may wish to elaborate on the 'other sources'.  Gardner was apparently
quite involved with Hermetic groups.  Aidan Kelly isn't the only one who
advances these theories, and I think he may be one of the more conservative 
(maybe even extremely so) of the religious theorists who take popular stands 
on this issue.

|3.7  What are the major traditions in Wicca and where do they come from?

I'd rather there was less an emphasis on Kelly, personally, though I do
think that his ideas ought be included within this FAQ.

|Alex Sanders is widely thought to have acquired a Gardnerian book of
|shadows, with which he started his own "Alexandrian" tradition, initiating
|Janet and Stewart Farrar.  

Since you're so inspiring to me, I wish to reflect this in return, from
my most recent Witchy readings.  Consider this carefully when attempting to
dissociate Crowley, Hermeticism and Satanism from Wicca:

"King of the Witches

"As we have seen, almost every country in the Western world has its
 witches today, and their numbers are steadily growing.  Some, like
 the Magician of Naples, Sybil Leek in America, and the late Gerald
 Gardner, have become personalities in their own right, symbolising
 to many laymen all the other, lesser, members of the curious craft.
 But if these three have achieved a measure of international success,
 they are being rapidly overtaken by the most flamboyant witch of
 them all, an Englishman who claims he is King of the Witches, and
 swears that one day he will make 'Aleister Crowley look like a boy

"At first sight, the gaunt features with their convex, impenetrably
 dark glasses are sinister in the extreme.  Above the tall narrow
 forehead, brown hair is brushed forward in a Nero-like fashion,
 while the rest of the figure, apart from the hands, is swathed in
 a cloak of royal blue velvet, relieved only by a flash of gold
 braid on the shoulders and a golden lunula or upturned crescent
 moon over the left breast.  The hands are long-fingered and
 sensitive and the rings on them look far too heavy.  At second
 glance, with the blank back spectacles removed, Alex Sanders looks
 anything but sinister.  The rather sad brown eyes and finely
 modelled cheek bones give him a totally fragile, vulnerable
 appearance, an impression which is increased when he speaks in
 his soft Lancashire voice, 'I am King of the Witches,' he says
 in a flat, matter of fact tone, 'because I was elected by members
 of over one hundred covens in Britain, and I am recognised by most
 other covens as an authority on witchcraft.'"

_Modern Witchcraft: the Fascinating Story of the Rebirth of Paganism
 and Magic_, by Frank Smyth, Castle Books, 1973; pp. 115-6.

|...There are also branches of Wicca identifying themselves with various 
|ethnicities and traditions such as druidism, shamanism and so forth. 

You may wish to note that some Witches/Wiccans do not *RECOGNIZE* lineage
as a valid identification of one's qualification, it being an organized
and political structure sometimes opposed to eclectic synthesis and 
individual authority.

|3.8  What is the "Book of Shadows?"  Where do I get one?
|     The Book of Shadows (or "BoS") is sort of a customized reference book
|for Wiccans, containing useful information such as myths, liturgical items
|or records of dreams and workings.  According to Gerald Gardner, such a
|book should be handcopied from teacher to student but in practice not
|every Wiccan has a "book of shadows" and few are exactly alike.  Sometimes
|only initiates are allowed access to a tradition's book, or it may be
|called by a different name, such as "mirror book," "magical diary" or
|"grimoire." There are many "books of shadows" available in print and
|on-line (leading to the "disk of shadows" or even "directories of shadows"
|several megabytes large).  If you'd like to copy from these sources for
|your personal use, you may assemble your own book, but please observe
|copyright laws in your newfound enthusiasm. 

I'd rather that this was changed/expanded to put more emphasis upon one's
*own* writing of this document rather than that usual upon the contents
'passed down from teacher to student'.  While this is true in the widest
sense, I gather that some find the Book of Shadows contains the most of
value where the student has constructed the major portion in reflection
of hir relationship with the gods.

|3.9  What is a coven and how do I join one?
|     The coven is the basic, cellular "congregation" for some Wiccans, but is
|often very formal, selective and closed, aiming for an ideal of "perfect
|love and perfect trust" among members.  

Say more about what this 'perfect love and perfect trust' includes, and why 
this ideal would lead to closed and selective groups.

|...Solitary practice is a valid "tradition" in the Craft, but some good 
|places to find other Wiccans are on the net, at public Pagan events or
|through occult, political or "new age" bookstores.

I think this is overly stated.  For some Wiccans solitary is less 'valid'
as it does not intersect their particular tradition.  Some of us wonder
how we can possible come to assessments of 'validity' in a decentralized
congregate.  'Validity' should only pertain to individual lineages, as I
see it, everyone's religious practice being perfectly suited for them.

|3.10  How do I witness about Jesus Christ to a Wiccan?

|blather about TRUE POWER!!! [IN ALL-CAPS!!!] are particularly
|inappropriate, and may be answered with e-mail complaints to you and/or
|your service provider. 

All wonderful.  Of course the people who tend to make these postings aren't
going to have bothered reading the FAQ, but that's ok.  Perhaps it'll
inspire Christians to temper our own. ;>

|4  Resources
|4.1  Introductory books on Wicca
|Margot ADLER, _Drawing Down the Moon:  Witches, Druids, Goddess-Worshippers
|STARHAWK, _The Spiral Dance:  A Rebirth of the Ancient Religion of the


|Scott CUNNINGHAM, _Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner_ (St Paul,
|Stewart FARRAR, _What Witches Do: A Modern Coven Revealed_ 1983 (Custer 

Quite popular.  Again, lovely.

|Silver RAVENWOLF, _To Ride a Silver Broomstick_ (St Paul, MN:  Llewellyn,
|1993).  ISBN 0-87542-791-X.
|Aidan A. KELLY, _Crafting the Art of Magic: A History of Modern Witchcraft,
|1939-1964_ (St Paul, MN:  Llewellyn, 1991).  ISBN 0-87542-370-1.
|Ronald HUTTON, _The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles:  Their
|Nature and Legacy_ (Oxford: Blackwell, 1991).  Paperback ISBN

To these three I would add: 

Carlo GINZBURG, _Ecstasies: Deciphering the Witches Sabbath_ (Penguin/Random
House, 1991).  Paperback ISBN 0-14-01858-8.

[There are probably newer editions of the following, but I've got the old ones.]

Max MARWICK, ed., _Witchcraft and Sorcery_, (Penguin, 1970).  ISBN ??

Pennethorn HUGHS, _Witchcraft_ (Penguin, 1965).  ISBN ??

Charles WILLIAMS, _Witchcraft_ (New York, US: Meridian Books, Inc., 1960).

Jules MICHELET, _Satanism and Witchcraft: a Study in Medieval Superstition_,
(New York, US: Citadel Press, 1939).  ISBN ??

|4.2  Other Usenet Newsgroups that may be of interest
|  alt.pagan           alt.divination           alt.religion.asatru
|  alt.magick          alt.tarot                alt.religion.shamanism
|  alt.mythology       alt.satanism             soc.religion.shamanism
|                      alt.magick.tyagi         alt.techno-shamanism


|4.5  Other Internet Resources
|    Other resource lists are posted to this group from time to time,
|including lists of FTP sites, WWW urls, offers of materials and reference
|files.  Among those we found particularly useful in writing this FAQ (and
|explicitly tried *not* to duplicate or replace here) are the US Army
|"Chaplain's Manual" entry on Wicca and the alt.pagan newsgroup FAQ.  Both
|are recommended for those with further interest in Wicca and Neo-Paganism.

WWW sites?  Pagan Resources?  Paganlink?

|5   Distribution Notice


|* "Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill:  An it harm none, do as you will" *



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