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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.chaos From: catherine yronwodeSubject: Re: Nomination for idiot sock of the month: Goddess of Whistle-Pigs Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:41:14 GMT Dagon Productions wrote: > > If I can find the info on the internet or in the white > pages, than I have no problem publishing someones name > or address... since it is already public knowledge... Me too. And i do unto others as i would have them do unto me. I've lived a public life for about 40 years now and i recommend it to all mages and witches. It is very liberating. It is a continual exercise in honesty, consistency, and truthfulness. It frees one from fear. It is in every way a magical act. > and most people don't realize how much public info is out there... > esp. for many years anyone with a webpage could check "who is" at > network solutions and get their name, address and phone number... Indeed. And i have done so in order to check out folks. It's not as easy to use the who-is function these days as it once was, with so many registries out there now, but it's still pretty much open information. > if people are stupid enough to not know these things than they > deserve what they get. I recall a woman who plagiarized a bunch of my copyrighted material a few years back and put it on her commercial web site for her own occult shop, with my name deleted, using it to sell her products. I asked her to take it down via usenet and she started one of those pointless "the internet isn't copyrighted" arguments, so i looked up her domain name and got the number of her shop and i phoned the number she had listed as her business phone number -- and it turned out to be her home number because she really didn't have a shop, she just worked out of her home -- and she started screaming at me that i had "NO RIGHT" to telephone her at her home, even though she had listed the number as her shop's number. She claimed i was "stalking" her and she was really freaked out, not simply angry, but really flipped. It was so bizarre that i actually took time to try to calm her down and explain to her that i was not a stalker, not a detective, that i had not hired a detective, that she had a web site that claimed to be the online portion of a store and that the telephone number for the store was listed on the who-is web page. She was AMAZED! She thought she was ... You know, i don't really know WHAT she thought! She thought folks run stores but don't let people telephone them? I dunno. She was just so ignorant that i felt sorry for her. > I have published my address quite a few times on the net and my > phone number... Me too -- and i even have an online map so folks can come visit me. But then, i like people. I really do. I like meeting strangers and interacting, and sometimes they become friends. It's fun. I have a village mentality and i consider the internet to be a global village. > usually along with the URL below since it's a nice > warning regarding what kind of training I have and that I live in a > heavily armed fortress: > > http://www.dagonproductions.com/hisardut.htm > > If someone threatens my life or or those of my family or loved ones... > hell yeah I'd have no problem outing anything about them... eye for > an eye and all. The groundhog person is exaggerating grossly, Doug. It was never a real "threat" or "outing" situation, as far as i was concerned. For some reason this troll named Jeff Crowe started in on me -- cross-posting into newsgroups i read and gratuitously claiming that i am not a published author. When that was countered by lists of books i've written, he claimed i was only a "self-published" author -- but that he, Jeff Crowe, was about to be published by a Real Publishing Firm. Well, me'n'my pals listed books i had written that were published by Ballantine, Taylor, Kitchen Sink, and so forth, and you know, it just felt weird saying "i am SO a writer" to some troll and his 25 troll friends and sock puppets, so i got to wondering about why Jeff Crowe kept insisting that i must cross-post to this alt.religion.wicca ng, and why he acted petulant every time i cut arw off the cross-post line. Jeff just got stranger and stranger, At one point he started threatening to sue siva and me because siva had archived one of his usenet posts. Siva took the post down -- he's got 5,000 pages of archived substantive posts about magic, religion, and occultism online and one post is not gonna be missed. He always removes posts if requested, as does google, but Jeff Crowe was apparently in that state of mind that some folks get into where they are rushing, if you know what i mean, adrenaline pumping to the point that they aren't reading well or writing well, and that was about the time i checked into arw to see where he was coming from -- just on the very day that Talesin (a.k.a. Cyric, whose name is David Willard, by the way, and who has trolled the alt.magick.* hierarchy for years), posted a long raving list of "real names" of all these wacky arw trolls and socks. I think Talesin did this because some of the trolls were calling him names based on his weight. So i was reading this flame war in arw, trying to deal with a total stranger threatening to sue me, and meanwhile i was also talking with siva, who was simultaneously but non-causally encouraging me to set up a new kill-filter system on my new newsreader, and was telling me all about about how cool his unix-based kill-filters were and trying to get me to go more techno. The combination of events got me going, and being the editor i am, i cleaned up Talesin's list of arw sock puppets and trolls and fixed his alphabetization and gave the document some internal html anchors and framed it in a FAQ and whatnot and put it on a web page. Next thing i knew, some of the folks named in the document gave me more information, posting in usenet to correct Talesin's errors or claiming further nyms or adding personal tidbits. So for about a week or maybe two, i kept updating the web page, and creating links to the home pages of these folks, and sort of ... you know ... *playing* with them. In a nice way, of course. Then one of them cracked and wanted out of the game (perhaps with good reason -- she had been stalked, she claimed, by a former arw troll-poster who is psychotic, she claimed). But it got weirder by the hour. Talesin was in deep doo-doo with his erstwhile tormentors for instigating what i had picked up on and run with, and he was backpedalling as fast as he could, pleading that although he had created the list, he had only meant for it to appear in usenet (and thus on the google archive forever, in theory) but NEVER on a web page. Stupid, yes, but this is par for those who are not-getting-it about the POINT of the internet. The not-getting-it extended also to the fact that i had made links to a web site i found through google on which many of these trolls had posted their pictures. (To this day you will read claims from them that i "POSTED THEIR PICTURES" -- another example of not-getting-it, in this case failing to distinguish between a LINK and an IMAGE. Those folks whose pictures were at the web site started demanding that i remove all links that led to their (gasp!) pictures -- pictures which they themselves had uploaded to the publicly accessible and fully spidered web site that could be found through google! And meanwhile, Jeff Crowe, the guy who started it all by being so rude to me that i had followed him to his troll-nest newsgroup, was still posting his boasting threats to sue siva (and me) -- and he followed through on his boasts by sending a legalesque letter to our isp trying to get our entire web site taken down. Well, i'm an old hippie. We hippies do things with communication, not with lawyers. So i tried to phone the number Jeff gave in his legalesque letter, to explain to him that he was a day late, a dollar short, and about three cards short of a full deck because the archived posts he had asked siva to remove were long gone and thus there was no need to sue us -- but the telephone wasn't his; it rang at some mail box center / UPS store in Seattle. The guy wasn't even "suing" us from his own residence! I've been sued by weirder and scarier people than Jeff Crowe (like Kenneth Bianchi, a mass murderer, for instance), i have spent time as a reporter, and i couldn't reach Jeff Crowe, so i wrote up an account of my telephone conversation with the staff person at the mail box shop and posted it to usenet. I related how the woman i talked to at the mail box place said that there was no one named Jeff Crowe with a box there. I noted that this presented me with a few logical alternatives, among them that Jeff Crowe rented the box under a fake name, or that he rented it under his real name which is not Jeff Crowe, or that he didn't have a box rented there at all and lied about it on the letter he sent to our isp, or that the woman i talked to was misinformed. Jeff's response to my reporting this stage of the "lawsuit" game was pretty apocalyptic. But, you know, if someone wants to play, "i'm suing you!" they've got to have a legal reason to do so and they have to come into the open to do so. In the end, our isp laughed at his unfounded demands and no lawyers ever appeared on his behalf. Game over. I then did a final update to the web page, leaving it as i had actually intended to start it until i had fortuitously run into Talesin's sock-identification and real name "outing" post -- that is, as a mere list of nyms, socks, and names in my kill-filter that habitually cross-posted to arw, for the use of anyone else in the online magical community who is bothered by these graffiti artists and wants a quick list of who to ignore. The page is online at http://www.luckympjo.com/altreligiontrolls.html They didn't like being played, so they still try to kick up sand every once in a while. I only know what they are up to when someone like you or Joseph Littleshoes replies to them. > And I have read posts threatening Tyagi and Cat previously so if they > posted any info on people threatening them... it is the person who > did the threatening that deserves everything they get. Like i said, when Jeff Crowe sent a legal letter threatening to sue us and our isp over usenet material that was no longer archived at our site, since he had asked for its removal, he put *himself* in the open. Court cases are like that -- names and addresses get written down and become public information. He ought to have known that, if only from watching a few legal dramas on television, but he wasn't wise enough. He overplayed his hand, and he didn't like the way he was played in return, but them's the breaks. I suppose, by the very fact that this thread exists in usenet, that he and his little troll-friends are still out there, whining about how the evil yronwodes toasted them over the gentle warmth of Talesin's troll-and-sock list and then called Jeff's bluff with a hearty laugh (only he and his friends will have another way to describe it, i am sure). But i now have them kill-filed and so their bellyaching is moot to me, reaching me like second-hand smoke and mirrors, as it were, the faintest echo of their gnashing teeth but a dim clatter in the corridors of unmoderated usenet. > One of the > reasons I have liked living in Arizona and Oregon... I can carry > my 9mm most anywhere. One of the reasons i like living without television is that i don't receive the nightly training that most people get in how to worry about random violence. > -Douglas cat yronwode Hoodoo and Blues Lyrics --------- http://www.luckymojo.com/blues.html
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