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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick,alt.pagan,alt.religion.wicca,alt.witchcraft From: lorax666Subject: Neopagans and Academia (was Crowley Failure Stories ...) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:07:53 GMT 50021113 VII Secret Chief: >> Certain portions of the neo-pagan community have a rather different >> definition of 'scholarly' than we might be familiar with. Something >> along the lines of 'author doesn't drool all over himself.' that's rather harsh, though I can appreciate your intent here. >> BTW: It's usually used as an insult. Funny people. for good reason too. the academic community has apparently become quite convinced that those who practice magic are fools or untrustworthy, in part because of the unfounded religious propaganda trying to pass itself off as scholarship (e.g. from Oberon Zell and others who use a facade of scholarship to bolster their religiopolitical agendas), and in part due to academic biases toward materialistic atheism. "Asiya" : >heh Yep. "Scholarly" is sometimes taken as "non-spiritual" by them, with good reason. if you look at academics of magic you'll find that they are almost without exception studying some medieval history or another culture's beliefs and practices. my contacts in the academic world (very few) indicate that identifying as a practitioner is the kiss of death for the aspiring scholar (in refutation, please point out some practitioners of magic who are also scholars on the subject). >rather than just making it up as you go along, the point is better made in a distinction sent by one of my email correspondents: that between operational vs. speculative magic. the Neopagan community has noticed that many Hermetic magicians and even some Neopagans are primarily speculative occultists. this extends even further when speaking of the academic world into complete abstraction from the subject matter (into areas such as sociology and anthropology at best). many Neopagans are primarily operational in their focus, and this turns to ART rather quickly (varying on traditional themes to create one's own formulae and spells). this latter kind of 'make-it-up-as-you-go-along' style is a demonstration of one's PROFICIENCY at operational magic (usually spellcrafting), rather than attempting to rely upon something some "master" may have told them about what they need. this breaks down when we begin to consider specific Neopagan religious traditions that have been strongly-affected by Hermeticism, solidifying rite-forms such as circle-casting and communion-wafer-charging. contrari- wise, when I was studying with Gardnerian witches (*California-line*, who are the most lenient and open-minded, apparently, they were often reminding me that their craft could not be gleaned from books, that they could recommend some books but that every one of them had severe limitations and drawbacks, INCLUSIVE OF THOSE THAT WERE WRITTEN BY GARDNER AND HIS FOLLOWERS. >which to them is the more spiritual way of dealing with facts. this is just inflammatory and describes moreso the beginners who are hooked on Llewellyn books than those with any strong ties to Neopagan religiospiritual traditions of magical practice. I've met some very studious Neopagans, I do not think that they were at all wowed by the run-of-the-mill fabricator. this is especially true of those who realized that they were attempting *without any real social connections* to revivify or recreate that which they were being informed about by academic sources (primarily anthropologists and historians) about what constituted pre-Christian "pagan" rites. I'd have to say that it IS more spiritual to derive from inside oneself the components of one's religious practices, and that some kind of historical basis is completely IRRELEVANT when considering how best to worship whatever and whoever the devout deems worthy. speculative magic is more popular with book-collectors and academe- fetishists. from this almost entirely intellectual endeavour, one may come to a more concise and supportable position on what may be considered "the real", because it can be determined through reference to historical sources. speculative tradition therefore focusses on how to determine whose rites are "wrong", and how the Other Guy is not authoritative or powerful. one must somehow come to satisfy another with warrants and reliable research in order to convince the participants of the correctness or sanctity of one religiomagical pursuits. this takes a slight detour when the proponents of Hermeticism attempt to promote their magic over that of others, because their objectives are primarily internal (as described) and mystical, rather than demonstrable in an overt sense. where Neopagans and ceremonial magicians coincide on this point (the primary aim of magic being something spiritual, rather than mundane and practical) so are they allied as to their reliance upon books and citations, however biased are their allegiances to what they call 'scholarly'. blessed beast! lorax666
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