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Magical Circles

To: alt.magick
From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM (tyagi mordred nagasiva)
Subject: Magical Circles (Was Re: PROPOSAL: Rules of the Circle)
Date: 1 Sep 1994 17:04:47 GMT

Quoting: |>|>| Raven
	 |>|> tyagi

|>|>Fairly false.  While a circle is not a pyramid, the orientation is
|>|>relative to our position with respect to the center of Gaia.  'Up'
|>|>and 'Down' fare likewise.

|>|Draw a circle on a paper and lay it flat on the ground, as the "magic
|>|circle" as generally placed.  

|>Oh, I get it.  Usually I think of a 'magic circle' as a sphere, though
|>I gather the archaic terminology remains.

|...I think that ...  rather than simply saying that you made a mistake, 
|you've taken  to obfuscating what someone said quite clearly and are now 
|trying to say that it was THEIR fault for using quite clear language. 

Examine the text here.  First there is mention of a 'pyramid', which is
a three-dimensional object.  If we suspend for a moment what we think
is a 'circle' (since there are several uses of this term), then when the
individual mentions a 'magic circle', they could mean either a circle
planar that attempts to be some sort of talismanic object, or they could
mean a *ceremonial circle*, which fits with their original post.

Now ceremonial circles are usually much more than circles.  Yes, they are
'cut' or drawn on the ground, sometimes in the air above the area of the
spell/working (often with an athame), yet the typical conceptualization
behind this is as a protective SPHERE.

|If you are using "regular English" or the language of mathematics, a 
|circle is NOT a sphere...

Correct, yet the original post did not concern 'regular English', since
it is not a 'regular subject'.  The word 'circle' was used throughout
in a technical way.  I suggest that you pay more attention to the words
and their usage instead of just trying to make me (or others) wrong.

|>|Walk around it.  Which part of the circle is the top?

|>The surface area of the circle is the top.  The underside is the bottom.

|Really? OK, a circle is in space...kindly point out the top and bottom to

If you were talking about a planar circle, then it must have some material
component.  For example, suppose we draw a circle with crushed bone.  Now
the part of the bone fragments which rest upon the stone floor of our cell
would be the 'underside'.  The surface area of the bone fragments would
be the 'top'.  If you're talking straight geometry (which bears no relation
to the original post) then you are of course correct, just like the concept
that a point has no extent in space.  Interesting, but not relevant to the
discussion at hand.

|>|The novice in the circle at one time may lead the circle at another;
|>|the teacher may become the student.  Which part is the top?

|>Whatever part is furthest from the center of the planet.

|OK, again, picture the circle in space...where is the "top"? 

Depends on the particular meaning of the term.  I think that Raven may
have been a bit sloppy here, but I could be misunderstanding hir.  If
the circle is a planar circle, then if the working be done on a hill,
then the point highest on the hill is the 'top'.  It is sort of like
when we set up a tent and figure out which is the 'top' so that we can
sleep with our heads elevated.

If the circle is a spheroid protection-/containment-device, then of
course it likely changes as the energy of the working stretches and
contracts the boundaries of the 'space betwixt the worlds'.  At any
one time the 'top' will be that which is furthest from the planet.

If we equate 'top' with 'head' as in 'head of the table', then this
would be determined by whoever was 'leading the circle', if indeed
the hierarchy is designated or enacted.

|Which planet does it have to be farthest from?

I'm surprised you couldn't figure this out, though I agree that one
does not necessarily have to be doing the working on a planet at all.
The planet of which I spoke is the one on which one is working, again
presuming a planetary residence.


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