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The Archdruid's Wisdom

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick
From: Gnome d Plume 
Subject: Re: The Archdruid's Wisdom (was Re: The Carroll, Cat, and Nguyen Troll Club)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:11:44 GMT

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:10:05 GMT, "Tom" 
wrote:

>"Gnome d Plume"  wrote in message
>news:03vfc0p89s0f8us34dfqc06bs0ss48i649@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 04:17:07 GMT, "Tom" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> (Big snip)
>> >
>> >The intense self-absorption of the magician, as typified by Carroll,
>> >is more severe than the more casual self-love we see in everyday society.
>>
>> ****This is an improvement. The Archdruid has elevated me from the
>> status of hucksterism to that of mere self-absorbtion. Thank you Lord
>>Thomas! Hereafter I shall endeavor to overcome this fault by a daily
>>meditation in which I will visualize that reflection of myself
>>represented by the image of your Lordship to be embodiment of 
>>self-assertion and I shall dismember it, boil the severed limbs and
>>parts in a great cauldron and feed the multitudes of hungry sentient
>>beings with the broth of your self-glorification. ****

>>Gnome Rimpoche
>
>Well, let's not forget your three-ring Goetic circus.  There's more than a
>little P. T. Barnum in that.
>
>Nor should we forget your campaigns of deliberate misinformation about
>people you perceive as your enemies or the thick clouds of smoking verbiage
>with which you attempt to cover up your errors.
>
>You don't make a living off your hucksterism, like Cat does, but it's still
>hucksterism.
>
**** Might this humble chela dare to remind the Archdruid that
somewhere it is written that: "He who would cast the mote from his
brother's eye should first cast the beam from his own eye...." (or
words to that effect.) The Archdruid Lord Thomas MacSchuler should
perhaps confess to having run his own franchised "three-ring-circus",
with as much or more contrived hokum, and presented seriously  to the
public at large with sufficient conspiratorial and fraudulent skill to
fool Margot Adler (see *Drawing Down the Moon* Adler, 1979:302-4).
Might I also suggest that your own "thick clouds of smoking verbiage"
will not serve to obscure the devious origins of your present
discontent.****

Ring Master Gnome

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From: Gnome d Plume 
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick
Subject: Re: The Archdruid's Wisdom (was Re: The Carroll, Cat, and Nguyen Troll Club)
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On 10 Jun 2004 21:55:30 -0700, mdhjwh@iprimus.com.au (MDHJWH) wrote:

>"Tom"  wrote in message news:<7H4yc.912$Wr.386@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>> As far as I can tell, none at all.  BTW, when are you going to explain your
>> accusation that Isaac Bonewits invented the Reformed Druids in order to have
>> deviate sex and take drugs?
>
>One pressumes Mr Bonewits could avail himself of the joys of deviate
>sex & drugs
>without the aid  of a Reformed Duidic discipline. Various forms off
>Tantra would best
>fit the bill.
>
>Ayn Marx

**** Ayn:

I quite agree. And BTW I did not accsuse Isaac Bonewits of inventing
his Reformed Druids religion "in order to have deviate sex and take
drugs," (this was a remark  in reference to Lord Thomas' support of
Poland's Psychadelic Venus Church ) whereas Lord Thomas did make the
statement that the Grand Druid Isaac Bonewits, his mentor and prelate,
created The New Reformed Druids of North America "as a joke." If you
read Margot Adler's book *Drawing Down the Moon* pages 202 through 204
you will find some quite serious quotes from Isaac Bonewits describing
his (and Lord Thomas') Druidic religion. At one point they had
branches in seven States and 12 active Groves, hardly a "joking"
proposition, especially the way Bonewits and Adler describe it.****

Gnome 


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Reply-To: "Asiya" 
From: "Asiya" 
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick
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Subject: Re: Margot Adler and RDNA (was) The Archdruid's Wisdom (was Re: The Carroll, Cat, and Nguyen Troll Club)
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 06:05:38 GMT
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"Gnome d Plume"  wrote in message
news:d5gic01h17p5oo8c8j36f6n5kc7putorm1@4ax.com...
>
> And BTW I did not accsuse Isaac Bonewits of inventing
> his Reformed Druids religion "in order to have deviate sex and take
> drugs," (this was a remark  in reference to Lord Thomas' support of
> Poland's Psychadelic Venus Church ) whereas Lord Thomas did make the
> statement that the Grand Druid Isaac Bonewits, his mentor and prelate,
> created The New Reformed Druids of North America "as a joke." If you
> read Margot Adler's book *Drawing Down the Moon* pages 202 through 204
> you will find some quite serious quotes from Isaac Bonewits describing
> his (and Lord Thomas') Druidic religion. At one point they had
> branches in seven States and 12 active Groves, hardly a "joking"
> proposition, especially the way Bonewits and Adler describe it.****

Pages 202-204 in my copy of 'Drawing Down the Moon' is in the "Women,
Feminism, and the Craft" chapter, which just talks about...women,
feminism, and the Craft. Presumably you're referring to the portion of
'DDM' that talks about the RDNA and Isaac Bonewits, which is in the
chapter entitled "Religions of Paradox and Play".

Adler certainly understands Reformed Druidism was started as a joke. She
wasn't "fooled" as you have previously stated.

In my copy, page 321, in the "Religions of Paradox and Play" chapter,
Adler writes: "The Reformed Druids of North America (RDNA) began in 1963
at Carleton College as a humorous protest movement directed against the
school's requirement that all students attend a certain number of
religious services. Since 'attending the services of one's own religion'
was one way to fulfill this requirement, a group of students formed the
RDNA to test it. The group was never intended to be a true alternative
religion, for the students were Christians, Jews, agnostics, and so
forth and seemed content with those religions."

As for the growth of Reformed Druidism, skip a few pages to page 324,
where Isaac Bonewits is quoted by Adler: "Over the years it grew and
mutated, much to the horror of the original founders, into a genuine
Neo-Pagan religion."

-- 
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/



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From: Gnome d Plume 
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick
Subject: Re: Margot Adler and RDNA (was) The Archdruid's Wisdom (was Re: The Carroll, Cat, and Nguyen Troll Club)
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On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 06:05:38 GMT, "Asiya"
 wrote:

>"Gnome d Plume"  wrote in message
>news:d5gic01h17p5oo8c8j36f6n5kc7putorm1@4ax.com...
>>
>> And BTW I did not accsuse Isaac Bonewits of inventing
>> his Reformed Druids religion "in order to have deviate sex and take
>> drugs," (this was a remark  in reference to Lord Thomas' support of
>> Poland's Psychadelic Venus Church ) whereas Lord Thomas did make the
>> statement that the Grand Druid Isaac Bonewits, his mentor and prelate,
>> created The New Reformed Druids of North America "as a joke." If you
>> read Margot Adler's book *Drawing Down the Moon* pages 202 through 204
>> you will find some quite serious quotes from Isaac Bonewits describing
>> his (and Lord Thomas') Druidic religion. At one point they had
>> branches in seven States and 12 active Groves, hardly a "joking"

>> proposition, especially the way Bonewits and Adler describe it.****
>
>Pages 202-204 in my copy of 'Drawing Down the Moon' is in the "Women,
>Feminism, and the Craft" chapter, which just talks about...women,
>feminism, and the Craft. Presumably you're referring to the portion of
>'DDM' that talks about the RDNA and Isaac Bonewits, which is in the
>chapter entitled "Religions of Paradox and Play".
>
>Adler certainly understands Reformed Druidism was started as a joke. She
>wasn't "fooled" as you have previously stated.
>
**** Oh I DO apologize! The full description of "New Reformed Druids
of North America"  is on pages 302-304 in *Drawing Down the Moon.* And
if the original version of it started as "a joke" by the time
Archdruid  Lord Thomas MacSchuler entered the fold it was being taken
seriously by many, including Margot Adler, as the text from pages 302
thru 304 will certainly indicate. Sorry about that. But you, as you so
tactfully and courteously pointed out: I'm not as young as I used to
be and little slips like this do sometimes occur. ****

Doddering Old Gnome 

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From: "Asiya" 
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Subject: Re: Margot Adler and RDNA (was) The Archdruid's Wisdom (was Re: The Carroll, Cat, and Nguyen Troll Club)
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"Gnome d Plume"  wrote in message
news:9s0rc0totnlhofe71jv9jn41ea1ttid5le@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 06:05:38 GMT, "Asiya"
>  wrote:
> >"Gnome d Plume"  wrote in message
> >news:d5gic01h17p5oo8c8j36f6n5kc7putorm1@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> And BTW I did not accsuse Isaac Bonewits of inventing
> >> his Reformed Druids religion "in order to have deviate sex and take
> >> drugs," (this was a remark  in reference to Lord Thomas' support of
> >> Poland's Psychadelic Venus Church ) whereas Lord Thomas did make
the
> >> statement that the Grand Druid Isaac Bonewits, his mentor and
prelate,
> >> created The New Reformed Druids of North America "as a joke." If
you
> >> read Margot Adler's book *Drawing Down the Moon* pages 202 through
204
> >> you will find some quite serious quotes from Isaac Bonewits
describing
> >> his (and Lord Thomas') Druidic religion. At one point they had
> >> branches in seven States and 12 active Groves, hardly a "joking"
> >> proposition, especially the way Bonewits and Adler describe it.****
> >
> >Pages 202-204 in my copy of 'Drawing Down the Moon' is in the "Women,
> >Feminism, and the Craft" chapter, which just talks about...women,
> >feminism, and the Craft. Presumably you're referring to the portion
of
> >'DDM' that talks about the RDNA and Isaac Bonewits, which is in the
> >chapter entitled "Religions of Paradox and Play".
> >
> >Adler certainly understands Reformed Druidism was started as a joke.
She
> >wasn't "fooled" as you have previously stated.
> >
> **** Oh I DO apologize! The full description of "New Reformed Druids
> of North America"  is on pages 302-304 in *Drawing Down the Moon.*

Wrong again. Pages 302-304 is in the chapter about the Church of All
Worlds. No mention of RDNA. RDNA is discussed in length on pages
321-326, in the chapter entitled "Religions of Paradox and Play".

> And
> if the original version of it started as "a joke" by the time
> Archdruid  Lord Thomas MacSchuler entered the fold it was being taken
> seriously by many, including Margot Adler, as the text from pages 302
> thru 304 will certainly indicate.

In my copy, page 321, in the "Religions of Paradox and Play" chapter,
Adler writes: "The Reformed Druids of North America (RDNA) began in 1963
at Carleton College as a humorous protest movement directed against the
school's requirement that all students attend a certain number of
religious services. Since 'attending the services of one's own religion'
was one way to fulfill this requirement, a group of students formed the
RDNA to test it. The group was never intended to be a true alternative
religion, for the students were Christians, Jews, agnostics, and so
forth and seemed content with those religions."

As for the growth of Reformed Druidism, skip a few pages to page 324,
where Isaac Bonewits is quoted by Adler: "Over the years it grew and
mutated, much to the horror of the original founders, into a genuine
Neo-Pagan religion."

> Sorry about that. But you, as you so
> tactfully and courteously pointed out: I'm not as young as I used to
> be and little slips like this do sometimes occur. ****

That's okay, Doddering Old Gnome (DOG). I'm a kind soul at heart, and
love to help old people. I'll continue these acts of charity by helping
your memory along now and then.

-- 
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/



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