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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick From: Gnome d PlumeSubject: Re: The Archdruid's Wisdom (was Re: The Carroll, Cat, and Nguyen Troll Club) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:11:44 GMT On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:10:05 GMT, "Tom" wrote: >"Gnome d Plume" wrote in message >news:03vfc0p89s0f8us34dfqc06bs0ss48i649@4ax.com... >> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 04:17:07 GMT, "Tom" >> wrote: >> >> (Big snip) >> > >> >The intense self-absorption of the magician, as typified by Carroll, >> >is more severe than the more casual self-love we see in everyday society. >> >> ****This is an improvement. The Archdruid has elevated me from the >> status of hucksterism to that of mere self-absorbtion. Thank you Lord >>Thomas! Hereafter I shall endeavor to overcome this fault by a daily >>meditation in which I will visualize that reflection of myself >>represented by the image of your Lordship to be embodiment of >>self-assertion and I shall dismember it, boil the severed limbs and >>parts in a great cauldron and feed the multitudes of hungry sentient >>beings with the broth of your self-glorification. **** >>Gnome Rimpoche > >Well, let's not forget your three-ring Goetic circus. There's more than a >little P. T. Barnum in that. > >Nor should we forget your campaigns of deliberate misinformation about >people you perceive as your enemies or the thick clouds of smoking verbiage >with which you attempt to cover up your errors. > >You don't make a living off your hucksterism, like Cat does, but it's still >hucksterism. > **** Might this humble chela dare to remind the Archdruid that somewhere it is written that: "He who would cast the mote from his brother's eye should first cast the beam from his own eye...." (or words to that effect.) The Archdruid Lord Thomas MacSchuler should perhaps confess to having run his own franchised "three-ring-circus", with as much or more contrived hokum, and presented seriously to the public at large with sufficient conspiratorial and fraudulent skill to fool Margot Adler (see *Drawing Down the Moon* Adler, 1979:302-4). Might I also suggest that your own "thick clouds of smoking verbiage" will not serve to obscure the devious origins of your present discontent.**** Ring Master Gnome Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!sjc1.usenetserver.com!c03.atl99!c01.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!f7a6ff27!not-for-mail From: Gnome d Plume Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick Subject: Re: The Archdruid's Wisdom (was Re: The Carroll, Cat, and Nguyen Troll Club) Message-ID: References: <7hRxc.147$Wr.50@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <03vfc0p89s0f8us34dfqc06bs0ss48i649@4ax.com> <%o1yc.595$Wr.379@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <7H4yc.912$Wr.386@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <808df0f8.0406102055.259144cc@posting.google.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 05:35:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.81.187.126 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1086932131 66.81.187.126 (Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:35:31 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:35:31 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:47463 alt.magick:375575 On 10 Jun 2004 21:55:30 -0700, mdhjwh@iprimus.com.au (MDHJWH) wrote: >"Tom" wrote in message news:<7H4yc.912$Wr.386@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>... >> As far as I can tell, none at all. BTW, when are you going to explain your >> accusation that Isaac Bonewits invented the Reformed Druids in order to have >> deviate sex and take drugs? > >One pressumes Mr Bonewits could avail himself of the joys of deviate >sex & drugs >without the aid of a Reformed Duidic discipline. Various forms off >Tantra would best >fit the bill. > >Ayn Marx **** Ayn: I quite agree. And BTW I did not accsuse Isaac Bonewits of inventing his Reformed Druids religion "in order to have deviate sex and take drugs," (this was a remark in reference to Lord Thomas' support of Poland's Psychadelic Venus Church ) whereas Lord Thomas did make the statement that the Grand Druid Isaac Bonewits, his mentor and prelate, created The New Reformed Druids of North America "as a joke." If you read Margot Adler's book *Drawing Down the Moon* pages 202 through 204 you will find some quite serious quotes from Isaac Bonewits describing his (and Lord Thomas') Druidic religion. At one point they had branches in seven States and 12 active Groves, hardly a "joking" proposition, especially the way Bonewits and Adler describe it.**** Gnome Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!HSNX.atgi.net!newshosting.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr23.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!940c50e7!not-for-mail Reply-To: "Asiya" From: "Asiya" Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick References: <7hRxc.147$Wr.50@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <03vfc0p89s0f8us34dfqc06bs0ss48i649@4ax.com> <%o1yc.595$Wr.379@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <7H4yc.912$Wr.386@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <808df0f8.0406102055.259144cc@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: Margot Adler and RDNA (was) The Archdruid's Wisdom (was Re: The Carroll, Cat, and Nguyen Troll Club) Lines: 45 Organization: Asiya's Shadows X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.92.150.126 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr23.news.prodigy.com 1087193138 ST000 68.92.150.126 (Mon, 14 Jun 2004 02:05:38 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 02:05:38 EDT X-UserInfo1: Q[RGG\SDTJRYSTX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAF@YUDUWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 06:05:38 GMT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:47537 alt.magick:375874 "Gnome d Plume" wrote in message news:d5gic01h17p5oo8c8j36f6n5kc7putorm1@4ax.com... > > And BTW I did not accsuse Isaac Bonewits of inventing > his Reformed Druids religion "in order to have deviate sex and take > drugs," (this was a remark in reference to Lord Thomas' support of > Poland's Psychadelic Venus Church ) whereas Lord Thomas did make the > statement that the Grand Druid Isaac Bonewits, his mentor and prelate, > created The New Reformed Druids of North America "as a joke." If you > read Margot Adler's book *Drawing Down the Moon* pages 202 through 204 > you will find some quite serious quotes from Isaac Bonewits describing > his (and Lord Thomas') Druidic religion. At one point they had > branches in seven States and 12 active Groves, hardly a "joking" > proposition, especially the way Bonewits and Adler describe it.**** Pages 202-204 in my copy of 'Drawing Down the Moon' is in the "Women, Feminism, and the Craft" chapter, which just talks about...women, feminism, and the Craft. Presumably you're referring to the portion of 'DDM' that talks about the RDNA and Isaac Bonewits, which is in the chapter entitled "Religions of Paradox and Play". Adler certainly understands Reformed Druidism was started as a joke. She wasn't "fooled" as you have previously stated. In my copy, page 321, in the "Religions of Paradox and Play" chapter, Adler writes: "The Reformed Druids of North America (RDNA) began in 1963 at Carleton College as a humorous protest movement directed against the school's requirement that all students attend a certain number of religious services. Since 'attending the services of one's own religion' was one way to fulfill this requirement, a group of students formed the RDNA to test it. The group was never intended to be a true alternative religion, for the students were Christians, Jews, agnostics, and so forth and seemed content with those religions." As for the growth of Reformed Druidism, skip a few pages to page 324, where Isaac Bonewits is quoted by Adler: "Over the years it grew and mutated, much to the horror of the original founders, into a genuine Neo-Pagan religion." -- Asiya ********** http://www.asiya.org/ Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!sjc1.usenetserver.com!c03.atl99!c01.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!f7a6ff27!not-for-mail From: Gnome d Plume Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick Subject: Re: Margot Adler and RDNA (was) The Archdruid's Wisdom (was Re: The Carroll, Cat, and Nguyen Troll Club) Message-ID: <9s0rc0totnlhofe71jv9jn41ea1ttid5le@4ax.com> References: <03vfc0p89s0f8us34dfqc06bs0ss48i649@4ax.com> <%o1yc.595$Wr.379@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <7H4yc.912$Wr.386@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <808df0f8.0406102055.259144cc@posting.google.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 37 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:04:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.19.136.119 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1087211044 69.19.136.119 (Mon, 14 Jun 2004 04:04:04 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 04:04:04 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:47540 alt.magick:375890 On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 06:05:38 GMT, "Asiya" wrote: >"Gnome d Plume" wrote in message >news:d5gic01h17p5oo8c8j36f6n5kc7putorm1@4ax.com... >> >> And BTW I did not accsuse Isaac Bonewits of inventing >> his Reformed Druids religion "in order to have deviate sex and take >> drugs," (this was a remark in reference to Lord Thomas' support of >> Poland's Psychadelic Venus Church ) whereas Lord Thomas did make the >> statement that the Grand Druid Isaac Bonewits, his mentor and prelate, >> created The New Reformed Druids of North America "as a joke." If you >> read Margot Adler's book *Drawing Down the Moon* pages 202 through 204 >> you will find some quite serious quotes from Isaac Bonewits describing >> his (and Lord Thomas') Druidic religion. At one point they had >> branches in seven States and 12 active Groves, hardly a "joking" >> proposition, especially the way Bonewits and Adler describe it.**** > >Pages 202-204 in my copy of 'Drawing Down the Moon' is in the "Women, >Feminism, and the Craft" chapter, which just talks about...women, >feminism, and the Craft. Presumably you're referring to the portion of >'DDM' that talks about the RDNA and Isaac Bonewits, which is in the >chapter entitled "Religions of Paradox and Play". > >Adler certainly understands Reformed Druidism was started as a joke. She >wasn't "fooled" as you have previously stated. > **** Oh I DO apologize! The full description of "New Reformed Druids of North America" is on pages 302-304 in *Drawing Down the Moon.* And if the original version of it started as "a joke" by the time Archdruid Lord Thomas MacSchuler entered the fold it was being taken seriously by many, including Margot Adler, as the text from pages 302 thru 304 will certainly indicate. Sorry about that. But you, as you so tactfully and courteously pointed out: I'm not as young as I used to be and little slips like this do sometimes occur. **** Doddering Old Gnome Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!sjc1.usenetserver.com!c03.atl99!c01.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr23.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!940c50e7!not-for-mail Reply-To: "Asiya" From: "Asiya" Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick References: <03vfc0p89s0f8us34dfqc06bs0ss48i649@4ax.com> <%o1yc.595$Wr.379@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <7H4yc.912$Wr.386@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <808df0f8.0406102055.259144cc@posting.google.com> <9s0rc0totnlhofe71jv9jn41ea1ttid5le@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Margot Adler and RDNA (was) The Archdruid's Wisdom (was Re: The Carroll, Cat, and Nguyen Troll Club) Lines: 77 Organization: Asiya's Shadows X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: <0Ivzc.772$Lq3.140@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.92.150.126 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr23.news.prodigy.com 1087276924 ST000 68.92.150.126 (Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:22:04 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:22:04 EDT X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCA[S@[RPLY_JNNO\TDFZ\@@FXLM@TDOCQDJ@_@FN\CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 05:22:04 GMT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:47562 alt.magick:375954 "Gnome d Plume" wrote in message news:9s0rc0totnlhofe71jv9jn41ea1ttid5le@4ax.com... > On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 06:05:38 GMT, "Asiya" > wrote: > >"Gnome d Plume" wrote in message > >news:d5gic01h17p5oo8c8j36f6n5kc7putorm1@4ax.com... > >> > >> And BTW I did not accsuse Isaac Bonewits of inventing > >> his Reformed Druids religion "in order to have deviate sex and take > >> drugs," (this was a remark in reference to Lord Thomas' support of > >> Poland's Psychadelic Venus Church ) whereas Lord Thomas did make the > >> statement that the Grand Druid Isaac Bonewits, his mentor and prelate, > >> created The New Reformed Druids of North America "as a joke." If you > >> read Margot Adler's book *Drawing Down the Moon* pages 202 through 204 > >> you will find some quite serious quotes from Isaac Bonewits describing > >> his (and Lord Thomas') Druidic religion. At one point they had > >> branches in seven States and 12 active Groves, hardly a "joking" > >> proposition, especially the way Bonewits and Adler describe it.**** > > > >Pages 202-204 in my copy of 'Drawing Down the Moon' is in the "Women, > >Feminism, and the Craft" chapter, which just talks about...women, > >feminism, and the Craft. Presumably you're referring to the portion of > >'DDM' that talks about the RDNA and Isaac Bonewits, which is in the > >chapter entitled "Religions of Paradox and Play". > > > >Adler certainly understands Reformed Druidism was started as a joke. She > >wasn't "fooled" as you have previously stated. > > > **** Oh I DO apologize! The full description of "New Reformed Druids > of North America" is on pages 302-304 in *Drawing Down the Moon.* Wrong again. Pages 302-304 is in the chapter about the Church of All Worlds. No mention of RDNA. RDNA is discussed in length on pages 321-326, in the chapter entitled "Religions of Paradox and Play". > And > if the original version of it started as "a joke" by the time > Archdruid Lord Thomas MacSchuler entered the fold it was being taken > seriously by many, including Margot Adler, as the text from pages 302 > thru 304 will certainly indicate. In my copy, page 321, in the "Religions of Paradox and Play" chapter, Adler writes: "The Reformed Druids of North America (RDNA) began in 1963 at Carleton College as a humorous protest movement directed against the school's requirement that all students attend a certain number of religious services. Since 'attending the services of one's own religion' was one way to fulfill this requirement, a group of students formed the RDNA to test it. The group was never intended to be a true alternative religion, for the students were Christians, Jews, agnostics, and so forth and seemed content with those religions." As for the growth of Reformed Druidism, skip a few pages to page 324, where Isaac Bonewits is quoted by Adler: "Over the years it grew and mutated, much to the horror of the original founders, into a genuine Neo-Pagan religion." > Sorry about that. But you, as you so > tactfully and courteously pointed out: I'm not as young as I used to > be and little slips like this do sometimes occur. **** That's okay, Doddering Old Gnome (DOG). I'm a kind soul at heart, and love to help old people. I'll continue these acts of charity by helping your memory along now and then. -- Asiya ********** http://www.asiya.org/
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