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Class2- Deities

To: (Sherry Michael)
From: (Lorax)
Subject: Re: Class2- Deities (To SM only)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 06:38:37 -0800 (PST)

Kali Yuga 49950126

My personal response to the items here. ;>

Use what you would like to forward to the list (such as queries you would
like to see addressed or comments you feel are important to be heard by
beginners).  I'm not sticking strickly to beginner mind here, I can tell,
but I'm trying.

| *"Wicca 101" class #2 Deities From the teaching coven of the Three Crescents*
|  **Please send all e-mail to this account.**
|  ***** Please do not distribute in full or in part without this header*****

Per your request, reposted.



Are there really 'Wiccan deities'?  Or are they 'deities which Wiccans use'?
I mean, is 'Wicca' legitimately geographically restricted to Celtica and
its predecessors?  I know of some who think this, and so I wonder how you
feel about it.

|...Judaism/Christian/Islam deities .... (It does not mean that they cannot 
|be included in Wicca, but they may be interpreted differently) 

Very broad-minded of you, I think.  Have you ever heard of Wiccans working
with Jehovah and/or Jesus?

|1) No intermediary is necessary to communicate with the God/dess. You do 
|not have to go through an official priest to talk to the divine.

I'd love to hear how people *do* occasionally function as intermediaries
within circle, however.  I gather that it is quite common and it has been
a part of very many Wiccan rites I've seen.

|2) The God/dess are NOT sitting up in the clouds and unreachable. Wiccans 
|are encouraged to try to "bring them down to Earth" and build a personal 
|relationship with them.

Would you say that the gods are PART or the WHOLE of the Earth?  When you
mentioned 'bringing them down' and I remembered 'Drawing Down the Moon',
then I wondered how often Wiccans tend to focus *away* from Earth-energies,
such as Sun and Moon and stars. 

|5) Beware of the deceptive labels of "dark" or "evil" deities. The words 
|"dark", "black" and "evil" in many cases just means death or change. 
|Western religions usually do not accept death and change as part of the 
|circle of life, therefore anything related to death is shunned or labeled 
|as evil. Wiccans may be afraid of death or change, but we know it is 
|just part of the cycle of life. Do not avoid Lilith, Kali, Hectate or 
|Anubis; if you are brave enough to face them, you will learn they hold the 
|true Mysteries of life.

Thank you.  And the 5th point, too!  :*

|The Wiccan Goddess commonly takes on the triple aspect of Maiden, 
|Mother and Crone.... 

Have you seen the recent movement away from this structure into a 5-aspect
system on the basis of its androcentrism?

|[Virgin:] the waxing moon and new beginnings. The Mother is the mother 
|Earth, .... She is the full moon. The Crone is ....  the waning moon....

'Virgin soil'?  How is 'Mother Earth' reconciled with 'Full Moon'?  Why
is the Full Moon associated with pregnancy and motherhood?  Doesn't this
system support the notion that the focus of womanly being is the generation
of children and that the 'life force' is at high tide during pregnancy and
at low ebb during 'old age'?  Is this accurate?  Isn't light usually
associated with wisdom and insight?  If so, then why is the waning moon
connected with the Wise Old Woman, whom the popular culture directly
relates to witchery?

|The God is the sun, reborn and sacrificed every year to symbolize the 
|seasons and birth, death and rebirth. 

How is this Son of Goddess, the God of the Sun any different than Jesus
Christ?  Why is a sacrifice necessary and to whom?

|...Man of The Woods, caretaker of wild places and animals as well as 
|the great hunter. ... the carefree Green man and Pan. 

What about the Lord of the Underworld?

|knowing that He will be reborn and death is just a part of the cycle of 

Is the cycle of Luna also considered a death and rebirth, then?  Is this
often spoken of within Wicca?  I don't usually hear about the Goddess'
cycles of time excepting her menstrual periods.  

Do you think that the popular conception of eternal-Goddess and regenerating
God-Sun is at all tied to Egyptian and Gnostic ideas, in which the Goddess
is Sophia and the Sun-God Her obedient child?


Does it matter?
What is the difference if they are 'archetypes' or 'gods'?

|The important part to remember is that you will not be excommunicated 
|for having a different deity concept, or questioning. 

I would not be so quick to promise this.  Some who find the Dark Ones
of value are shunned.  Some who attempt to take into their arms the
Christ Jesus and the god Jehovah are rejected, outcast from a wounded

There are some who would recoil and throw out those who use fantasy-gods
or alien gods (Cthulhu, Nyarlatotep, gods from fantasy novels) also.

|...With respect to the cultures, please read 
|up on the myths and symbols that culture used. As Wiccans, we are not 
|trying to reenact a past religion or its rituals, but you should try to 
|understand the culture as best you can, and then incorporate the God into 
|your Wiccan tradition and practices respectfully.

Why?  Why should we attempt to use old ideas about gods who may have changed
forms and faces several times since then?  Aren't we doing a disservice to
the god by continuing to use Hir old forms?  What is so valuable about
historical views? 

|If you happen to get the attention of your deity, ask questions, listen to 
|what they have to tell you,and be respectful. Each God/dess you contact 
|will have a different personality, some may MAKE you listen and be 
|quiet, others will make you ask the questions. When the contact ends, thank 
|the deity for coming.

I am suspicious of any deity which 'makes' me do anything, but since I'm a
rebellious sort, perhaps this isn't unusual.

|One of the signs that you have found YOUR God and Goddess is this: can 
|you see all the aspects of the Wiccan God or Goddess in the deity? Is the 
|Goddess the maiden/mother/crone in one? Is the God protector/father/teacher 
|or something new?

I'm unsure why you mention this.  Do you really feel that this format for
the gods is something so primordial that we ought use it as a standard to
determine what god is 'right for us'?  What if the mmc turns out to be a
completely male-oriented vision, as some authors now claim?  Aren't we
thereafter patterning ourselves, especially if women, on something which
is dangerous to us?

|How do you know this is not all in your head? Sometimes you don't. 

Well said!

|...(believe the God, historians can be wrong!) Time, other contacts and 
|searching will tell you what is real.

Is it important what is 'real' as compared to what is 'effective' or what
is 'meaningful to me'?

|Wiccans often include offerings in prayer and in ritual to the God/dess. 
|Offerings are small items given in thanks (not bribes!). 

Why can't they be bribes?  Hasn't bribing gods been part of religion for
thousands of years?

|...blood sacrifice, not looked well upon! 

Why?  Does this have anything to do with the common Christian hatred of
sacrifice (from which the New Testament attempts to sway us through
explaining that Jesus is now the only sacrifice we have need to appease
the wrath of the god?

Aren't there many pagan and Neopagan religions which incorporate blood
sacrifice?  Why is there so much antagonism toward these within the
(mainly white) Neopagan trads except as JC-bias?  I don't understand.

|(There IS some valid reasons where blood in pinprick amounts, or from 
|menstruation, is used in magic, ...

What makes a reason for doing anything 'invalid'?  Why does blood bother
you so much?  What *is* sacrifice?  Why make it?  How is this related
to the yearly sacrifice of the Sun Lord?

|This is very different from thinking that blood is required as a sacrifice.)


|Meditation is necessary to learn for Wiccans. ..._Book Four_ by Aleister 
|Crowley also includes a helpful technique. 

Wait a second.  Isn't Crowley a woman-hater and Satanist?  I thought that
Ceremonial Magick and Wicca were opposites.  Aren't they?

|                          BASIC MEDITATION TECHNIQUES

|                                   Bill Witt

[most of the three parts omitted]

|To meditate is to focus mentally on one thought, idea, or concept.
|It may also mean, to revolve an idea in your mind so as to change the
|way in which you think of that idea. 

I've usually heard the first called 'meditation' and the second 

|Meditation is therefore, a tool with which you may manipulate thought 
|in an organized manner.

Or adjust to it.

|In some cultures, the use of drugs to achieve a meditative state is

How is a 'drug' different than a 'food'?  Is the wine (in Catholic and
Wiccan ceremonies) a 'drug' or a 'food'?

|The american indians for example, used drugs derived from various plants 
|to put themselves into an altered state of conciousness. 

Did they see it this way, or are you describing it from a biased perspective?
Didn't they see the very plants and substances as entities?  

|This was usually done as a religious practice and as an event marking the 
|change from one state of life to another. 

Weren't the 'uses' you outline above seen as ritual journies and instruction 
in and of themselves, rather than as 'means to an end'?

|...Today there are still many, who advocate the use of drugs to achieve 
|these altered states. 

There are?  Isn't the current trend toward 'Just Say No' rhetoric?

|It is my opinion that such measures are neither necessary nor good. 

Why is it 'not good'?  What is your personal experience with psychoactive
substances and their use?  Are you speaking for experience or from some
sort of bias based on propaganda and/or witnessing abuse by others?

|You can reach an altered state of conciousness without the use of drug 
|induced "highs". 

Is it the same state of consciousness?  Why do you call it 'altered'?
Isn't this one more bias from the Western establishment to enforce a
typical mind-control on its population?

|It takes practice, but it can be done.

What are the benefits of psychoactive use?  Have you ever studied this
deeply, or are you relating caution based upon the current media hysteria?

|pick a place which is as private and safe as possible. An altered
|state of mind, as in meditation, lessens your awareness of the outside
|world. For this reason, it is not advisable to practice these
|techniques in a public place where there is a chance of being mugged,
|robbed, or molested. 

Even if we are watched by friends or have done the practice many times and
are able to come out of it quickly?  Wouldn't there be benefits to doing
meditation within public places like shopping malls and busy street corners?

|If you are at home, with other family members or
|friends present, ask that you not be disturbed and that all other
|noise in the house be kept to a minimum. When you have found a place
|suitable for meditation, you may begin.

For the beginner this makes sense.  For the advanced student of meditation,
wouldn't such 'distractions' become part of the meditation?  

|   "The seekers of new mind states-the mind control devotees, the
|encounter group enthusiasts, the drug takers, the psychics, the
|meditators - all are on a journey into the interior universe trying to
|burst the limits of the socially conditioned mind. Weither acceptable
|or unacceptable, moral or immoral, wise or foolish, the mind of man is
|stirring toward a new evolution." -- Dr. Barbara Brown (1)

I like this very much, and it seems at odds with your own language.

|   People who can acheive very deep states of trance often leave their
|bodies in astral projection, or have psychic experiences.

What do either of these things mean??

|Unfortunately though, you may not be able to recall all the things you
|experienced while in trance.

Why is this?

|...visualize a yourself in a cocoon of white light. You should
|surround yourself completely. See the light as bright and warm. You
|may play with this sphere of light making it bigger or smaller until
|it "feels" right for you.  Say to yourself, "I am protected by the
|pure white light of all that is good and truthfull. I am surrounded by
|the pure light which keeps out all unwanted and evil influences."

What if we don't believe in 'evil influences'?  What if we have had
'light' used against us as a 'Tool of Enslavement' by Christians and
New Age Light Nazis?

|   This is a good idea to do for several reasons. There are those, and
|I am one of them, who believe that each of generates an aura which
|protects us from outside influences when we are in trance. This aura
|may be strengthened by visualizing the light as growing brighter at
|our command. Even if you do not accept this idea, the practice lends a
|feeling of safety and security to you.  Nothing which is outside of
|you may enter or touch you without your permission.

Why is it so important to protect myself from 'something outside touching
me'?  What do I have to be afraid of?  What is the worst that can happen?

|   Some things which are found to be helpfull in meditation follow.
|   Try concentrating on the flame of a candle when focusing. You could
|also use a crystal ball. The later is rather exspensive but small
|crystal window ornaments or pyramids also work well and cost much

What should we be seeing in these?


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