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To: tariqas@world.std.com From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Subject: Sufism and Islam (again) (9408.sufislm.h) Date: 49940823 Alaikum dinakum waleyah din. My kin, Noori, writes: |yes but the question is can you really be a sufi and not be a |muslim. I refer all those interested in the very long discussion of this point to the files via ftp on ftp.lysator.liu.se /pub/religion/sufism. Between taher and I alone we were able to quite chase away very many people with our radically different perspectives on this controversial question. Alternatively, I gather (though I have yet to read it) that 'Gnosis' magazine has a back-issue centering on Sufism and it may deal somewhat with the question of sufism without Islam. Perhaps Jay Kinney could confirm and/or argue this point. I think that whenever we get into the question of 'really's then we begin to appeal to levels of knowledge which transcend our ability ot ascertain outside of direct communication from Allah Al-Alim. My own experience indicates that this differs for *each and every person* (thus my greeting line of 'Alaikum dinakum waleyah din', which, as I understand it, means: 'To you your way, to me mine'). |or if you would like it put another way is there any |possiblity of sufism wihtout islam. My impression is that aside from positions for or against, the only justification I've ever seen to deny the possibility came from the religious texts themselves, which is a specious argument, since those who do not participate in the religion of Islam do not necessarily recognize them as authoritative. Even if they do, this does not mean that the quoted text must be interpreted in a particular way. Beyond this there are surely countless Muslim Sufis (and I distinguish between the religious Muslims and the righteous muslims who may or may not reside within the religion) who will claim to know that there cannot be a possibility such as you ask about above. Leaving aside for the moment the translation into English (and therefore interpretation), I am not aware that any particular reference (religous or no) may be said to constitute 'the correct and primal truth' on the matter, though I would love to hear others provide their arguments to the contrary (with quotes from these individuals, though I'd prefer not from Al Qur'an). |i am of the schoolk that |believes that there is no sufism without islam or if there is a |sufism without islam it might be thought of as a cut rose. Do you have reason behind this belief? If so, what is it? I hope you know that some might consider it an insult to be told that what they are doing isn't 'real sufism'. |buatiful still with a certain redolence but without roots and |ultimately sterile. How do you assess this? Have you sampled the various paths which do or do not claim to be sufism which do not call themselves 'Muslim'? If not, is it possible that your sources are biased? If the roots are in Allah, what more is the need? La ilaha illa 'Llah, my kin, and Muhammadun rasulu'Llah. Haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
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