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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.sufi,alt.islam.sufism,alt.religion.gnostic,talk.religion.newage,talk.religion.misc
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (haramullah)
Subject: Daraul and False Sufism
Date: 28 Feb 1998 19:46:26 -0800

49971230 aa2 Hail Fourth Way!

assalam alaykum, my kin.


Germaine:
# >>Have you read "Teachers of Gurdjieff"? I haven't.
# >>I'm only guessing here, but is Idries Shah saying 

quote the text.


# >>that Gurdjieff (and later, Ouspensky) and the followers 
# >>of The Fourth Way were/are 

who does this include amongst the 'followers'?  did Gurdjieff
or Ouspensky or any who came after claim to be sufis?


# >>not authentic Sufis, but Sufi 'imitators'?

Frank LoPinto:
# >This is certainly the case, especially with regards to Ouspensky 
# >who further smashed an already broken version of Sufism preached 
# >by Gurdjieff.

they claimed to be a kind of sufism, then?  I didn't get this
from the brief exposure I've had to their materials.  'Meetings
With Remarkable Men' (the film) and glimpses at a couple books
(_Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson_, _In Search of the 
Miraculous_) didn't give me the impression that it was a type of
'sufism' which was being portrayed.  perhaps I overlooked it.
there certainly was credit given to sufic inspiration, but this
is only respectful.

 
Germaine :
# Excellent! I've been trying to find material on Sufi imitators.

why?  I suggest that the criteria for the 'imitators' or the
'false sufis' will naturally vary depending on the source, and
that this often will follow along religious lines.  I further
suggest that the most voluminous material concerning 
'imitators' will be from the imitators themselves, abandoning 
their humility.


# I had visited the Gurdjieff website, 

what is the URL?  I couldn't find it in a brief survey of the
"sufi" Websites I happen to find in the GOO:

	http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/Magi/gehennom.html


# but being new in the study of Sufism, and being without a guide, 
# I find it sometimes very difficult to tell what is authentic 
# Sufism and what is not.

is that not the second question?  the first is 'what is it that
associates itself with the word "sufism"?'  surveying what is
available we may begin a discernment.  this is of course the
broadest route to such a weeding.  without the broad survey,
however, we may fall prey to all manner of imposter who will
promote the detraction of their competitors.


# And thanks for the titles and pen names in your other post. 
# Much appreciated.

there are many who say that Idries Shah is an 'imposter', 
one who does not teach 'true sufism', by their definition.
this is probably also said of all but the most orthodox or
conservative sufi Orders, even some of these discredited as
'failed' or 'sullied', having 'lost the Path'.

another means, and one which you may be taking in your
approach, is the selection of someone who *you* feel is
instructing true sufism.  say we start with Shah, and
further say that this Arkon Daraul conforms to Shah's
standards (by identity or through close proximity).
then we may profit by reading these words, which I found
while reading Daraul's text just in the last few days
(the discussion here prompted me to pick it up, I am as
yet unconvinced of the resemblance to writings of Idries
Shah with which I am somewhat familiar -- _The Sufis_, 
_The Way of the Sufis_, _The Secred Lore of Magic_
and _Oriental Magic_):

	There are many paths within the Order which
	the initiate may take; all will depend upon
	what his natural bent is: what are his inner
	capabilities, which will be 'developed' by
	the training which he is to receive.  Early
	in his training, which takes place primarily
	with a designated teacher from the circle, he
	is given the poem of the Sufi mystic Nadim
	to commit to memory.  It purports to describe
	the False Sufi:

		Who fears man, accuses, slanders,
			claims exclusive right;
		Who preaches travelling, not to
			disciples properly enrolled;
		Who purports to explain the Path
			through assemblies other than
			those of initiates;
		
		Who denounces a father, son, uncle
			or other relative;
		Who panders to the desires of the 
			raw (immature) in giving
			them promise of things that
			they may want: not the things
			which they must have.
	-------------------------------------------------
	_A History of Secret Societies_, by Arkon Daraul,
		Citadel Press, 1997; p. 69.
	_________________________________________________


given Shah's writings otherwise that sufism is the heart
of all true religions, etc., I'd think that generalizations
about what groups are or are not 'false sufis' would be
rather impossible to make -- some members of any organization
might qualify, many probably would not, even in nominal 'sufi'
organizations and Orders.

if we are looking for a 'true wrapper of sufism', then our 
best bet may be in the traditional Orders and the poets 
and artists associated with the sufic tradition (e.g. Rumi, 
Ibn Arabi, Al Ghazali, etc.).

if we are looking for the 'true heart of sufism', then our
best bet may be to begin an assessment of this heart, what
it includes, and what characteristics may most likely be
associated with it regardless of any wrapper.

searching for the Prophet, it is seldom best to begin by 
determining what kind of person is NOT the Prophet, for 
this merely distracts us, getting us looking for darkness by 
searching for light.  instead identify what the Prophet is, 
what manner of being is this darkness, then select among what 
may be found in the environment which roughly conforms.  if 
nothing comes close we relocate our search elsewhere, keeping
ours eyes and ears open and our mind keen.

more importantly, long-term, is the attention to the self,
to our own maturity and how this may be effected.  even in
'imitation sufi' materials there are decent explanations of
how to go about coming to know oneself and beginning to 
work toward the descent into the Real.  combining this self-
investigation and transformation with our examination of the
possible 'real sufis', we prepare for the day that the Real
Guide arrives and we begin work in earnest.

may peace be with you,
 
haramullah 
-- 
tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (emailed replies may be posted); 408/2-666-SLUG
http://www.abyss.com/tokus       FUCK       http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi