THE |
|
a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects. |
To: alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.misc,alt.mythology,alt.philosophy.taoism,alt.magick,alt.consciousness.mysticism From: dbuchanan@classicalradio.org (DMB) Subject: Re: Immortality (was My Quest continues) Date: 2 Sep 2001 13:45:50 -0700 Xi Wang Mu and all: Immortality is a worthy quest and no trivial matter. Oh what fun it is to exchange ideas on such a profound issue. I've snipped your post substantially only in an effort to get to the heart of it. You said... > typically such psychoactives do not yield hard scientific evidence. That might be true, but I think its a huge mistake to expect hard scientific evidence from the kinds of experiences associated with psychoactive substances. They're not supposed to produce objective data. They might produce a profound psychological and spiritual experience, but its hardly the kind of thing that excites men in white lab coats. Such a rational approach ould only confuse chemistry with alchemy. Trying to grasp mystical experiences by using the standards of scientific objectivity is just not a good idea. And contrary to popular opinion, mystical experience tends to diminish the value of scientific objectivity, not the other way around. Since hundreds, thousands or even millions of people have reported such mystical experiences, it seems pretty irrational to dismiss them entirely. Its not exactly scientific evidence in the usual sense, but it seems exceedingly unscientific to ignore reports that come from nearly all ages and all cultures. The meaning of such an experience is famous for being difficlt to express. Understanding the kind of knowledge that psychoactive substances can yeild nearly always requires having the experience for yourself. By analogy, we can learn something about love from the reports of others, but the best way to grasp the power and meaning of it is to fall in love, to actually experience it for yourself. Then the reports of others really begin to make sense. Even those men in white lab coats know this and love is no less important to them. Likewise, trying to understand immortality in terms of perpetual physical existence confuses biological function with a shift in consciousness. The quest for immortality ought not proceed on a physical road. You'll only end up in a place full of strange scientific fundamentalism. You said.... > otherwise we may be talking about strictly pharmaceutical > and practical magical expertise -- the construction of a > material or metaphoric "Pill" which will somehow transmute > the flesh of the (usually mystical) adept into 'an adamantine > substance', perhaps translating the fortunate individual who > does not DIE FROM POISONING to a fantastic plane, land, island, > or state of existence. one might immediately compare this > lure with the aforementioned heavens of innumerable religions. > in some cases even when the body is found this is explained as > some kind of spiritual transcendance, though typically, at > least in China, immortality must somehow include the flesh > (compare 'ascending bodily to heaven' in Christian tradition). Again, immortality is not about transmutation of the flesh. (Although such a confusion might explain why people by vitamins and exercise equipment.) I realize that many, many people take that view, but it is a literalistic, fundamentalist misinterpetation and it only leads to the most profound kind of confusion. Further, you seem to be confusing alchemical processes with mystical experiences. Both of them are concerned with the transformation of consciousness and they're both about spiritual growth, but they're very different approaches. Genuine spiritual adepts speak and think in metaphorical and poetic terms precisely because they're dealing with ineffable, psycho-spiritual realities. Its a big mistake to interpet them through scientific or dogmatic eyes. The idea of "ascending bodily to heaven", for example, is absurd when taken literally, as if an actual physical person could be wisked into space without getting killed. Only religious fanatics could believe in such a thing. But the idea shouldn't be thrown out because of such ignorant literalists. Their interpetation defies well established scientific facts, but its not supposed to be a fact anyway. It only makes sense when its seen as a poetic image, as a mythic truth. Then it makes a great deal of sense and is not unreasonable. Its supposed to be seen as a symbol that refers to transcendence, that refers to an ineffable expansion of consciousness that allows a person to see what death is before they die. It refers to a shift in perspective that allows a person to see what life is in the larger context, to see beyond their own finite physical existence. And again, its not about objective scientific realities. Its about a certain kind of noetic experience, a mystical experience. And you ended your post nearly saying that yourself, except it has a dismissive ring to it.... > without examples of unending endurance, the observant mystic > must conclude that the process is either symbolic (e.g. of > an attenuated consciousness which extends the subjective > experience of life) or a fabulous tale to entertain and > inspire, sometimes lethal, acts of mystical achievement. A genuine mystic knows that immortality is not the same as unending physical endurance, although she might use eternity as a metaphor to describe that ineffable truth. She knows the difference between fabulous entertainment and mythical stories. Religious literalism and scientific objectivity are just two kinds of fundamentalism. They're twin brothers, two sides of the same coin. Both confuse facts with metaphors and they're equally mistaken. And when it comes to grasping the meaning of mysticism, that bird won't fly. Fortunately, we have other choices. DMB
The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist: tyaginator@arcane-archive.org. |
Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site. |
The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories, each dealing with a different branch of religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge. Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit: |
|
interdisciplinary:
geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc. |
SEARCH THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):
OTHER ESOTERIC AND OCCULT SITES OF INTEREST
Southern
Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo,
including slave narratives & interviews
|