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From yronwode@sonic.net Thu Jan 14 20:53:46 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:53:33 -0800
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To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tantra,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick,alt.magick.sex,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.sex.wizards
Subject: Re: Tantra and Menopause
References: <75qbc0$1et$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <77k2s2$a6f$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva)
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49990115 IIIom Hail Kali!

mario_carnevale@my-dejanews.com:
#> Tantra and Menopause, eny thoughs ?

cassandra.wong@gte.net:
# The Zen of Menopause is more like it.

the subject of menopause and tantra is a sensitive one on 
account of three factors combined:

	the mistaken identification between tantra with physical 
	sexuality,

	male-oriented sexism which equates women with incubation
	equipment or entertainment centers,
and
	ignorance and shame surrounding the discussion and 
	phenomenon of menopause.


the identification of tantra and physical sexuality already
sets the stage, especially within puritanical cultures like the 
one in which I was raised (middle class/WASAtheist/CA native), 
for taboo and secrecy surrounding the subject. sexuality was 
rarely discussed in any technical detail in the family in which 
I grew up, lurid comments and swearing, pornography and even
appreciative comments about beauty were discouraged. 

provided the general (though gradually changing) ignorance of
sexuality and the hesitance to discuss it, it is not surprising
that secret societies, culture clubs and (what was previously
'underground') prurient literature describing all manner of
erotic taste and lifestyle develop outside the bounds of 
education and informative media attention. brief mentions and
sensationalism perpetuate the general ignorance of the public, 
and school curriculums do little to supplement the horrid 
deficit passed on by the previous two generations in the area
of sexual education (really interpersonal communications as a
whole).

today if one is diligent one may find databases of information
via the internet on sexual techniques, though these can be, at
their worst, biased and/or misinformed accounts by those whose
imaginations get the better of them. at its best, the world-
wide web offers a wealth of data never before accessible to the
public (examples include organizations like the Society for
Human Sexuality at 

	http://www.sexuality.org/ 

and individuals like catherine yronwode, whose sacred sex web 
site at 

	http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredsex.html  

have been very helpful to many individuals attempting to 
learn more about their bodies and about sexuality).
 
and yet the mystique about sexuality, the taboo surrounding it,
and especially the technical skills associated with its mastery,
have not disappeared. this may be a time of broadening of social
morays, a dissipation of a repressed culture in which I live,
but that liberated pole has not yet been reached. the attention
now paid to special groups and special mystical traditions
reputed to contain the sexual secrets of the cosmos is the 
result of decades of inhibition and self-restraint.

the mystical and/or religious facet of this attention is being
called 'tantra', likely due to the "pornographic" imagery that
graces Indian temples associated with historic Indian tantrism. 
that is, many have come to presume that the sexual component of 
tantra is all there is to it, or that it is its central focus 
(which, as I understand it, is an error).  the over-heavy 
emphasis on sexuality arises, I assert, in response to the 
historic sexual repression of the cultures (apparently largely 
Christian, possibly also Muslim) which have begun to attempt a 
self-education in the realm of sexuality and have sought to
find this outside their own culture in 'exotic hands'.


when sexuality becomes the focus and male-orientation becomes
the perspective, then quickly the female is marginalized into
the sexual roles of sex-toy or child-bearer, her menstrual
cycle being a nuisance and problem to be eliminated through
the use of pills or avoidance. when she stops being able to
produce children then also her power is popularly presumed to
have waned (since this, according to the nuveaureligious, is
her most unique skill and, admittedly, has in times of hard-
ship become important to the tribe). 

overpopulation being what it is, this puts the misplaced
emphasis on progenation by "nature worshippers" in a very
different light (that is, truly male-centered, mother-
worship, however many 'feminists' might be valuably finding
their power within it), and the double-taboo about menopaus
begins to make sense as the sex-toy/child-bearer suddenly
enters into a stage of development that, due to our 
ignorance about female bodies, we cannot predict.  

suddenly instead of being the "receptive female" (see the
variety of magico-religious who prefer this association),
she becomes more independent, possibly aggressive, and can
no longer be exploited and expected to (re)produce according
to the desires of her groom and dominators.

combining this with sexual confusion over tantra, this means
that menopaus is a time of 'problems' for the male-oriented
'tantrics'.  the woman no longer 'contributes her part' to
the (obviously reproduction-centered) mystical conjunction
of the 'White Eagle' and 'Red Lion' or the ashen Siva and
the bloody Kali during the 'important rites' of this
supposedly sex-oriented enterprise. in fact the sexuality
(horror of horrors!) might even become LESS important to
her, and she may find that she would rather be building a
website or conquering the world.

to sex-starved males this means that she will no longer be
behaving as a 'tantric adept', and thus, due to her less
attractive role (to them, less malleable, predictable,
less male-oriented) she becomes 'less powerful' and less of
interest.

from this paradigm come jokes like "Tantric menopaus? You
must mean the *Zen* of menopaus!" (zen being popularly and
mistakenly associated with celibate quietude and monastic 
solitary pursuits). 

as I am instructed (albeit from a peculiar source -- the
goddess Kali as I know Her), this is a symptom of the problem
which tantra assists us in *solving* (i.e. over-emphasis on 
sex due to our ignorance, centering on male experience and
advantage, a devaluing and complete incomprehension of the
perfection and beauty of all phases of the human life cycle).

the three problems listed above are remedied through careful
investigation into ourselves and the depth of what we come
to identify with 'tantra', a refocussing from male-oriented
woman-use to an encounter with the divine of all people,
and a serious and joyous adventure of inquiring into the
perfection of every phase of life, however strange or
'inconvenient' we may presume these to be.

that tantrics accept sexuality as an (sometimes the most)
important instructional rite of interfusion does not
necessitate that sexuality begins and ends at any specific
points in the behavioral repertoire (see my essay on sex
magick at

  http://www.hollyfeld.org/Esoteric/Avidyana/Huntun/conjunctus.fn

for more on this subject). physicality and behavior are only
one aspect of what I would call 'intimatics'. the emphasis
on the physical varies with the individuals as to its role
in their intimacy, and successful matching of interests leads
to a greater potential for cosmic union.

mystical systems which integrate sexuality such as does tantra
yoga or karezza, if they are of any value, extend BEYOND these 
rudimentaries, including the ascertainment of a great deal more 
than repeated, however satisfactory, sexual encounters. they
integrate all aspects of life and love, extend to the divine,
and psychospiritual states which are seldom encountered in the
human experience.

despite any popular or traditional tendencies to orient upon
male experience and objectives, my understanding of tantra is
of a more catholic (universal) and egalitarian character,
integrating and exalting the diversity of the human species,
instructing the acceptance and enjoyment of ALL stages of 
living and dying.

truly feminist tantrics will (have?) develop an entire 
mystical corpus proclaiming the empowerment of those who
undergo the menopausal change. if a biological basis for it
can be ascertained there may even develop a dual-gendered 
life-transition point comparable to puberty, yet not so
obsessed with reproduction.

the weaving of a holistic life out of the fragments to which 
we are heir may be an undertaking few ready to undertake, 
and the subject of menopaus and its place in tantra is one 
of those which, humorously enough, brings into sharper focus
very poignant areas of our IMMATURITY as a culture and species.

nagasiva

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