THE |
|
a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects. |
Path: ultra.sonic.net!news From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.tantra,rec.drugs.psychedelic,alt.drugs.psychedelics,alt.psychoactives,alt.consciousness.mysticism,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,alt.religion.shamanism,alt.shamanism Subject: Re: Mysticism and Psychoactives Date: 13 Jan 1999 03:39:17 -0800 Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 411 Message-ID: <77i0l5$dln@bolt.sonic.net> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com NNTP-Posting-Host: bolt.sonic.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV) Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:15281 alt.magick.tantra:7573 rec.drugs.psychedelic:42487 alt.drugs.psychedelics:76784 alt.psychoactives:18299 alt.consciousness.mysticism:24781 talk.religion.misc:275100 talk.religion.newage:92892 alt.religion.shamanism:20117 49980608 Ramo MiceHole: # > # ...you can accomplish what may never be accomplished in a # > # lifetime by simply eating this or that. It defies people's # > # work ethic. Ramo MiceHole : # I think that I have acheived an awareness of how my brain # structures impressions to form my perception of what # I will call "ordinary" reality. Having now experienced the # process in myself, I tend to have more empathy for others # who may be structuring their impressions differently. I have similar experience, though I am unsure whether this assists me in being more contented, satisfied with what is. a combination of consistent mystical discipline and intentional exploration otherwise seems to be the perfect balance. the character of my life has a great influence on the subtle flavor of each day. I have greatly simplified my envelope while varying the tune of my expression to mellifluous assault. # At times I have felt that I could almost put on the # persona of another person like putting on a pair of shoes. # I've never testes this and realise that it is highly # subjective. I think that the experience of some substances weakens the girders of personality, in some measure dissolving them and allowing a reconstruction based on the rudiments we have retained as substratum. as long as we leave the substratum untouched we merely reconfigure ourselves over and over if we are to repeat the psychedelic experience. I think that this is what happens to those for whom it becomes some type of recreation (a good word for it), rather than a reflection. this weakening allows one also to develop a flexibility of person, enabling compassion and an adaptable expression. it seems valuable to me to ask what deeper changes may be possible than this mere persona-flux, however. the stories of the sufis include instructions for the disciple to reconstruct hir person over and over (changing classes, locations, occupations, objectives). this is, I feel, a similar process of weakening the linkage between identity and person, enhancing perception on what remains more constant and what can be effaced and replaced over time and with some effort, and providing a more sure footing that otherwise obtained. I have experienced this myself intentionally in my disciplines with changes of appearance, lifestyle and employment, social groups and acquaintances. # > if the psychoactives we are discussing do in fact approximate # > or in some manner complement the states developed through # > noningestive and noninhalant methods, how can this be verified? it would seem to me that only those who have experience with both would be able to discern the comparison. the individual would have to have had similar experiences as you and I in terms of consciousness expansion and life-changing depth of insight (I have had it verified by others I trust) as well as having had a similar result from disciplines or rites (I have experienced this but it wasn't as ecstatic or 'profound' as you said). # I only have the fuzziest notion of what enlightenment might be # so how would I recognize it if I saw it? you provide a fairly good description below: # ...an awareness and realization that pain and suffering are # not meaningless and part of the bigger picture and that # everything is happening just as it should be happening and # that everything is ok.... # not ...afraid of death but [understanding] it as a transition # to something greater. # [having] deep insight into the troubles of fellow # humans and be able to help them find the way to remove # their own forms of self induced suffering. # [feeling] unified and connected; empathetic with all # of the natural world. # [feeling] greatful to be [themselves] and awed and # inspired by the magnificence of the creation. # ...very slow to anger and [exuding] an inner happiness # and contentment that others would benifit from just # by contact. have you ever met someone like this? you said you have studied with a number of other people so I wondered if you ran across such an individual as you perceived them. I cannot claim to have, and I would only be able to say such things about someone I had spent a great deal of time around. I have met very patient people and I have met very attentive people but seldom have I ever met the confluence of compassion and wisdom, of empathy and an insight into the nature of the world. of course I am not one who has gone looking for these folks, and without sustained time-sharing it is difficult to discern them. # > if there are valuable # > tests these can be used before and after psychedelic experiences # > to see if there is a *lasting* or receptive state of conscious- # > ness that facilitates the development of insight, as well as # > whether there may be side-effects (such as addiction). # How could we that to see if Louis and Clark actually saw # [Yellowstone]? I think this is the nature of the problem. # All we can do is to send more explores or do the exploration # ourselves. I disagree strongly. we can also question those who have gone exploring and ask them succinct questions about the nature of their journey, what they encountered, assess their presence, empathy, patience, and state of consciousness. for Lewis and Clark, ask them about Yellowstone and then compare their responses to others who may have taken that journey after them. to take this to the specific technology of psychoactives, we can compare the expressions of the pioneers such as TLeary, BRDass, CTart, AWeil, JCLilly, and the many others who have explored the byways of psychoactives and may have some insight into the results they may be bring. those who have trek with both psychoactives and mystical processes such as Dass and Weil, possibly Lilly (were you serious about his sufi-tude?) may provide valuable reflection. there are a host of scientists of consciousness (often having cross-overs in the field of Transpersonal Consciousness such as psychologists like Maslow or Jung), such as Durkheim, DCDennet, DHofstadter, REOrnstein, CNaranjo, KWilber and DBohm, who have explored both mystical and psychoactive consciousness states, and some of these have proffered their analyses of the mind and spirit, taking their findings into consideration. # Many times explorers want to go again and again. comfort and habit are the enemies of mysticism. if we are going to institute a new habit to assist in breaking our old then how will we set about breaking the new one? # We could say they were addicted. I regard addiction as being that habit which is deleterious in a direct way to the individual who is obsessed. obsession by itself does not indicate problems to me. if the obsession brings with it problems to the person's life and creates for them inherent difficulties maintaining their system of support or handling their basics then I would assess this as addiction. too often the self-righteous are quick to label a use an abuse, a habit an addiction, an obsession a loss of control and a victimization. I feel this is too paternal, too insistent on taking away the authority of the individual and the potentially instructive conditions that letting go of the world can offer. # Some explorers even get # dashed on the rocks and swollowed up by the ocean. But I # think more explorers have been swollowed up by false shaykhs # and schools of thought than by all the oceans. how many false sheikhs can you name? how many false schools of thought do you know about? I've heard conflicting testimony on that of the Gurdjieff wake, and of course there is conservative complaint about Idries Shah, but are there any clear cases of outright charlatanry? # McKenna said that he had dreams in which he allied himself the # plant. The dream was indistinguishable from the waking # waking experience. This tells me that we have the ability # in us, but where is the key to unlock it on demand? triggered by drums, half-light, chanting, flickering shapes, the deep of the woods, intentional entry into the Tweenworld. the keys are all around us, hidden amongst the feathers in the wings of the mind. # > # ...I did not reach cosmic consciousness even after a few years. ;-) # > has anyone ever reached it? what is it like? how can we tell if # > we have reached it? # Honestly, I haven't a clue. then how do you know you haven't reached it? # ....I just wanted some friends and found people # who made me feel like I was a part of something or # that I was something special. There is nothing wrong # with this, except it seems to have little to do with # discovering and exploring one's self. where is the near shore of the self? how are its waters trespassed, its depths plumbed? # ...membership always seems to come only with the willingness # to carry the baggage of other people. You need to support # their ideas or at least keep quiet when you do not. this is one of the reasons that I have not long stayed in the study of others. either their ideas were shallow or repulsive to me or they did not exhibit the qualities I admired. # I need to find some way to be authentic. what prevents you from being authentic right now? RE 'knowing the Prophet' (peace be upon him): # > # there is so much that he did... that seems morally # > # questionable.... # ...if I were going to have him be only the metaphysical # figure, then wouldn't I be just as well of to project # this figure on to some other landscape. I know the Prophet as a metaphysical PRINCIPLE, a facet of the divine: that which reveals. we can find the Prophet in our everyday experience if we are diligent in looking. # to do so would at least avoid risking the ire those people # who insist that his historicity is an essential part of # the religion. I think that I would be better to project # the metaphysical reality where you will not find so much # resistence. hehehe, their ire does not bother me, for I remain far from what I perceive to be their thin skins. let them rail at my 'blasphemy', catcall at my 'ignorance', I will love them all the more. they are right to oppose me, but in doing so they bring more attention to that which they detest. # > # In the mean time I am remembering those deeply # > # profound experiences I had with psycho active # > # substances and only last week went to the # > # well once again. # > # > what makes them profound? # # The emotion of great discovery. perhaps the substances merely inspire an emotion. if it does not last, then is it of long-term value? what if the psychoactive merely provides the APPEARANCE (due to reduced width of consciousness) of profundity? the study of philosophy and of the great masters (the poets, the mages, the thinkers and doubters) can inspire such awe and bliss. so can peering deeply into our own selves through the use of tools of divination. the sufi does not leave the world behind to discover the secrets of the world. to the contrary, we should ultimately find it WITHIN the ordinary, the mundane. # There are lots of things I would change about myself. this desire is an important one. # My ideal ...an awareness and realization that pain and suffering # are not meaningless and part of the bigger picture and that # everything is happening just as it should be happening and # that everything is ok.... security. we all want that. I find that true security proceeds from coming to know the integrity of what and who I am, what and who I am not, and perfecting means of remaining in nonattachment with the world (not detached, not attached). # not ...afraid of death but [understanding] it as a transition # to something greater. coming to know death directly is the best way to conquer fear of it. choosing death rather than fear can assist in this process, as can challenging our boundaries of personal security through occasionally doing risky things. understanding death as change and pain as a response to intense change also yields value. # [having] deep insight into the troubles of fellow # humans and be able to help them find the way to remove # their own forms of self induced suffering. looking into the self we connect with all suffering that others face. watching the dynamics of the internal elements and how we intentionally avoid, deceive and trick ourselves, we begin to become compassionate as to our condition and see the commonalities of human experience. # [feeling] unified and connected; empathetic with all # of the natural world. I am ignorant of achieving this as yet, though the occasional initiation or immersion in death-rebirth symbolism seems to assist my connection, as does a dedication to the God of All. # [feeling] greatful to be [themselves] and awed and # inspired by the magnificence of the creation. I wonder how often people feel this. I'm sure that it varies considerably from person to person, and that only the most dedicated to perfecting themselves achieve it. # ...very slow to anger and [exuding] an inner happiness # and contentment that others would benifit from just # by contact. the development of temperance I have found best achieved in intentional forays into the emotions mentioned. when in anger, feel it deeply, learn it thoroughly, see what it has to teach, take its direction where it serves resolution. I gather that the exuding occurs when we have become fulfilled within ourselves. I have not achieved this and so cannot comment further. Ramo MiceHole (private email permission to repost): # # You seem to be most understanding of what I was trying to say # # and balanced in your appraisal of the situation. thank you very much for your feedback. # # Have you found something that works for you? yes, I am told it is called Wizardry, and I am but a slow student to my God in its learning. I am unsure how it fits with sufism, yet I understand it to encompass all modes of mystical endeavor. # # Do you have anything that you think could help me? and later: # Maybe you know of a book that you think is particularly good? aside from the authors of science of consciousness that I have mentioned above? Richard Bach's _Illusions_, perhaps, or if you are wanting more depth of philosophy, Pirsig's _Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance_. these, along with the humor of Raymond Smullyan have been favorite light reading. but in honesty I cannot tell from this distance what would assist you. I can only write to you through this Octopus I call Freston and hope you find something amidst the flurry of letters that inspires you toward the Truth. do I turn you to my beloved _Tao Teh Ching_ so long have I been away, to the beauty of _Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind_ with its crisp edges and rolling green, or _Liber ABA_ from the depths of the Wild Beast? # Are you a member of a sufi order? If so which one? nothing called 'sufi', no, though if one accept all manner of esoteric organization then I am a member of some: the Ordo Templi Orientis (Order of the Eastern Temple), the Order of Kaos Under Satan (TOKUS), under the tutelage of God do I weave a Way through the shoals of desert mirages and camel-less expanses. perhaps you would find those such as the Urban Dervish or Peter Lamborn Wilson of some assistance. # Have you found it fulfilling? the OTO is like a grinding stone against which I can dull my teeth where I might otherwise ply the patience of less worthy playmates. understanding the devious rigor of the path arcane, my kindred dissuade me from abandoning my God or my will. the OK is a vehicle allowing me alteration in relationship to my society (antagonizing for its benefit) and is small enough that I cannot provide a real assessment of its value in fulfillment except that it is a beautiful channel for my ecological radicalism. generally I don't find organizations or instructors to be fulfilling. more often I find quiet reflection and relaxation away from the hustle and bustle of my projects and politics to be satiating to my soul. reading a good book or listening to placid orchestrations, I come once again to hear my breath. ah such calmness in the cool, full lunar evening, in the standing atop a mountain looking upon rushing whitewaters in the river of the valley, in the breaking light of a day full of birdsong and snailtrails. nagasiva -- tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (emailed replies may be posted); cc me replies; http://www.abyss.com/tokus; http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatSPELLS.html
The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist: tyaginator@arcane-archive.org. |
Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site. |
The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories, each dealing with a different branch of religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge. Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit: |
|
interdisciplinary:
geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc. |
SEARCH THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):
OTHER ESOTERIC AND OCCULT SITES OF INTEREST
Southern
Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo,
including slave narratives & interviews
|