a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


Krisna and Tantra?

To: alt.magick.tantra,alt.religion.sexuality,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,alt.magick.tyagi
From: "Dharmadeva" 
Subject: Re: Krisna and Tantra? (was Siva...)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:11:08 +1100

Rev. Carroll D. Kraston wrote in message
>there is tantra which does include sex though, and it goes back quite
>a bit

Actually there is a parallel and that is in relation to the so-called five

Most people are generally unaware of the true significance of the five 'm's
in tantra.
In their case it can be said that a little learning is a dangerous thing.
They do not understand, nor do they care to understand, the underlying
significance of the five 'm's.

      Tantra has two aspects : the crude and the subtle. The
subtle aspect of Tantra is also called the path of yoga (yoga nia'rga )' The
middle path between the crude and subtle paths is called madhyama marga in

Lord Shiva was the propounder of both branches of Tantra, hence there cannot
be any contradiction between them.

      Under ordinary circumstances there may be a natural
inclination in the human mind to express its strong animal
propensities. Of course, these baser propensities are not
equally strong in all people. Those who have intense animal
desires rush towards crude object of enjoyment. Such people
cannot suddenly give up their objects of enjoyment when they
first step onto the path of the spiritual aspirant. But those whose
desire for crude enjoyment is less intense can easily
overcome their animal propensities in the very first stage
of spiritual practice.

      If those whose cruder propensities are more active
forcibly try to divert their minds from ther objects of
enjoyment, they will face disastrous consequences.

Psychologists are well aware of the dangers of attempting to
suppress or repress one's desires. One may be able to calm
them for a certain time, but the raging storm cannot be
contained for long. It is not unusual for those who remain
virtuous early in life to fall prey to immoral desires in
the later stage of life. The dark shade of immorality
descended upon the lives of many monks and nuns in the past
for this very reason they tried to suppress their desires by

The practice of the five m's was formulated
for those people.  But for those wbo are guided by
subtle propensities there is no need for them.

      The purpose behind the practice of the 5 m's is is to permit those-
following a life of ciude enjoyment to also follow the spiritual cult. It
will help them to gradually control their instinctual propensities.  It is
not an end of itself - but only a means.

They will ultimately rise above them.  For example, a wine-addict will drink
controlled measure of wine as part of sa'dhana' (spiritual practice); a
fish-eater will follow certain restrictions : he or she will
limit the quantity of fish eaten and will not eat female
fish in their spawning period. In this way people can
develop psychic power to control their objects of enjoyment.

An explanation of the 5 m's is as follows and it is from here that the
sex-mysticism of tantra became distorted as a goal to itself.

Many people are under the impression
that the five 'm'-s is a crude practice. This is incorrect.

Let us take the first M---madya. The one who experiences the intoxicating
joy of drinking the nectar ( hormone secreted from the
pineal gland) is called a madya s'adhaka. This is the underlying spirit.
Madya literally means wine . In this connection one should remember that
every gland secretes hormone (or nectar). The hormone
secretion of the pineal gland ( pineal plexus or sahasra'ra
cakra ) is partly controlled by the moon, hence its nectar
is called somarasa or somadha'ra' ( soma means moon ). This
pineal secretion invigorates the lower glands of the human
body and intoxicates the spiritual aspirant with divine joy.
Ordinary people cannot experience this divine joy because
crude thoughts result in somarasa being burnt up in the
mental sphere.

Unfortunately, this particular 5M has been distorted to allow for all kinds
of ritualistic wine drinking and alcohol in spiritual ritual.

For a Tantric, mam'sa does not mean
meat.  Ma means
tongue ; mam'sa means speech -  control
over speech.

Usually the matsya sadhana of a
Tantra yogi is symbolised by the two nerves - ida and piungala'.

 In other words the
practitioner of matsya sa'dhana' gains control over the flow
of breath of the left and right nostrils. He or she succeeds
in stopping the flow of breath at the pituitary gland
through purn'a kumbhaka ( holding the inhalation ) and
shunya kumbhaka ( holding the exhalation)

Crude mudra sa'dhana' involves the use of a certain type of
food. Subtle mudra sadhana' has nothing to do with food.
The result of bad company is bondage ; the result of good company is
liberation. After knowing this supreme truth one should
avoid bad company. This shunning of bad company is called
mudra sa'dhana'."

Many people comment adversely on the
fifth 'm'. Distortionists equate it with sex-mysticism.
Tantra teaches that in this process of sadhana' (spiritual practice)
people of cruder propensities can have steady progress if
they practise restraint. Nobody should have any objection to
this. Regarding the subtle spirit of maethuna sa'dhana' it
is said: Kulakun'd'alinii shaktirdehinalm' dehadba'rin'ii
Taya' shivashya samyoga maethunam'.parikiirttitam'.

The lowest point of the spinal chord is called kulu. This is
muladhara cakra (or basic plexus ), the location of
kulakun'd'alinii or the sleeping divinity. The purpose of
maethuna sa'dhana' is to raise the kulakun'd'alinii and
unite it with Parama Shiva at sahasra'ra cakra. The lessons
of Tantra are physico-psycho-spiritual. Tantra says that one
can attain spiritual elevation through physical and psychic
purification. This is a very logical proposition. Hence
absolute purity in food and conduct is essential for a
Tantra sa'dhaka.

Without attaining all-round purification it
is impossible for a sa'dhaka to imbibe proper cosmic
ideation. On the path of spirituality bhava or ideation is
the main factor. Tantra explains bha'va ot ideation as a mental flow.
This repetition of the ideation is called japakriya --outer-suggestion or
auto-suggestion. If human beings repeatedly ideate on Parama Purus'a - the
Infinite Cosmic Consciousness their
psychic waves gradually straighten after coming in contact
with the perfectly straight spiritual waves of Macrocosm. In
the Vedas abambrahma'smi, tattvamasi, and many other mantras
have been mentioned. But what does a person gain by knowing
the theory behind these words without experiencing any
practical realisation from them ? The Vedas do not state
clearly how to imbibe cosmic ideation, nor how to realise
the inner import of mantra, nor even how to use mantras in
practical life.

      "The sight of the reflection in water of a sweet fruit
hanging from the branch of a tree does not give one the
taste of the fruit."

Similarly, what is the value of Brahma
being confined to a book if that does not bring spiritual
realisation to a person? In this regard Tantra says that the
realization "I am Brahma" ( Aham Brahma'smi ) is the only
way to dispel the darkness of ignorance. Had this knowledge
of Brahma'smi remained confined to mere words, it would not
have served any practical purpose. To gain knowledge of
Brahma one will have to ideate continuously on the so'ham'
mantra. Ideation is not possible by merely repeating a
mantra parrot-like. This subtle science of psycho-spiritual
practice is the discovery of Tantra.

The Tantrics say that mere
repetition of mantra will not serve any purpose if the
incantative flow and the mental flow are not parallel. To
perform japakriya' while harbouring mean thoughts is futile.
One can only attain success in japakriya' if all the psychic
propensities are diverted towards the underlying spirit of

This is the interpretation of:

Manolnyatra shivo'nyatra saktiranyatra ma'rutah Na
sidhyati bara'nane kalpakotishataerapi. ( in the Kula'rnlava Tantra).

      "The mind runs in one direction , towards its object
of fascination, its object of ideation lies in another
direction, the vital energy moves in yet another direction,
and the va'yus (vital airs) run in all directions uncontrollably. In the
midst of such chaos ideation on Parama Purus'a God is
impossible-- even in hundreds of lives."

In Tantra the system of
initiation is highly scientific. Initiation has two
important aspects ; diipanii and mantra caetanya. Diipani
means torch-light ; mantra caetanya means proper knowledge
of the meaning of mantra and a parallelism between this
knowledge and ideation.

Regarding the interpretation of
diiksa ( initiation ), Vishvasara Tantra says, Diipa
jinanani yato dadyat kurya papaksayam Tasma'tdiioseti sa
prokta sarvatantrasya sammata

      "The process which produces the capacity to realise
the inner import of mantra and which expedites the requisate
of the reactive momenta (sam'ska'ras) is called diiks'a."

You may have noticed that some people become extremely sad
or extremely happy after being initiated. This is a good
sign because it shows that the sam'ska'ras (ie karmic reactions) are being
exhausted very quickly. But this sort of reaction does not
occur merely by hearing the mantra or repeating it
parrot-like. One should be initiated according to the
prescribed system. Only then will the mantra be effective.
The the repetition of mantra both diipanii ( torch of
knowledge) and mantra caetanya (conceptual understanding of
the meaning of mantra ) are important. One cannot see even
the most valuable objects in a dark room. Similarly, a
valuable mantra cannot be used properly without the help of

      Unless the kulakun'd'alinii is raised upwards in the
process of spiritual practice, incantation becomes
meaningless.  To repeat the mantra without
understanding its spirit is a waste of time.

Tantra, being a practical process, does not
recognise idol worship as an effective process of sa'dhana' (spiritual

Even the Vedas, although they contain references to idols,
do not approve of idol worship.

Tantra is much more liberal,
much more psychological than the Vedas. According to Tantra
idol worship is also a process of sa'dhana, but the
crudest -process.

But Tantra declares that the Serpentine
Entity' is a continuous flow of Cognition, only attainable
through the process of incantation. Thus how can it support
the worship of idols or matter as an ideal type of

In Tantra three types of sa'dhana' have been
devised on the basis of parvrtti, nivrtti, and a
combination of the two (vrtti means mental propensity). The crude and
horrifying practices such as pisha'ca sa'dhana' ( pisha'ca literally means
vampire ) are part of pravrtti sa'dhana'. The goal of
pisha'ca sa'dhana' is to establish supremacy over material
forces.  All this leads to downfall - as does idol worship.

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races