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From: sarvaratna@indra.net (Namdrol)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,alt.consciousness.mysticism,alt.magick.sex,alt.meditation,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.fan.kali.astarte.inanna
Subject: Re: TANTRIC SEX?
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:19:57 -0400
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In article <3ugs14$6bb@jobe.shell.portal.com>, tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
(nagasiva) wrote:

~Kali Yuga 49950718
~
~
~dns@netcom.com (Lefty Redux) writes:
~
~|..."Chod" is Tibetan and Kali is a Hindu goddess.
~
~Tibet is a geographical state absorbed into a larger nation (China).
More like eaten by a Larger Nation. 

~Kali is a goddess of Indian origin, certainly worshipped by countless
~inhabitants of the Indus Valley (or thereabouts) and typically associated
~with what is sometimes controversially called 'Hinduism'.


~However, isn't there a manifestation of Kali within Tibetan practice or
~thealogy?
   We do not have theology in Buddhism, Tyagi, as there is no Theos in
Buddhism. 
  There are numerous forms of a protector deity, called Shrii Devi, also
know as Palden Lhamo, who in some manifestations, namely Kamadhati-ishvari
(Mistress of the three realms) is also called Mahakali, regarded as the
sister to Mahakala, the buddhist analogue to the hindu Bhairava. 


  I've seen several similar deity-forms within Tibetan
~literature (often a male, Kalachakra).  I am almost sure I've heard
~through some source or another that Kali is also part of Vajrayana (of
~course a minor part in comparison with usual gods/yidam).
   
   The confusion about Kali vis a vie 'chod' practice, introduced by the
Indian Mahasiddha Padampa Sangye, (adapted to Tibetan cultural tastes by
female siddha Machig Labdron), arises due to introduction to Tibet of the
Mahasiddha's Virupa's sadhana of the black form of Vajrayogini  known as
"Krodhakali", familiar to Nyingmapas as Troma Nagmo, Literally 'Wrathful
Black Female". It must be born in mind, however, that this lineage of
Krodhakali is not the same (though probably serves as the inspiration) as
the popular cycle of Troma Nagmo chod teachings from the terchos of Dudjom

Lingpa, which originate in pure visions involving the Siddha Saraha, i.e.
the Saraha Nyinthig. Virupa's system of Khrodhakali is the original. 
   There is most certainly a connection between the cults of Vajrayogini
and the various forms of Kali. This relationship is most clear in Nepal,
where certain shrines serve dual functions for both Buddhists and Hindus.
The etiology of Buddhist/Hindu tantric goddesses is quite complex,
numerous goddesses and gods are of extra-Indian original, for instance,
Nila-Sarasvati, identicle to the form of Palden Lhamo called Magzor
Gyalmo, which comes from far Western Tibet originally, to the west of
Kailash. There is a great deal more to be understood about the history of
various Himalayan cults. Our knowledge if these is yet in its infancy. So
it is best not to be too hasty about drawing conclusions about the
ultiomate origins of this or that god. 
   As far as the Buddhist etiology goes, Kali/Vajrayogini is to be
understood as the chief dakini taken as a consort by various Buddhist
herukas, Chakrasamvara, Hevajra, Hayagriva, etc.

-- 
ITD,
Namdrol

Here, nothing to remove, not the slightest to establish,
See the real in the real, if the real is seen, complete liberation.
  -- Nagarjuna