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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick.chaos
From: nocTifer 
Subject: Re: Enochian Magick Revisited
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:39:26 GMT

50040729 viii 

om sri catyananda :
> Alexander Mulligan:
>> om sri catyananda:
>>> Alexander Mulligan:
--------------------------------------
>>> My doubts about Dee's claims spring from other causes and 
>>> do not entirely devolve upon what he said....

> Well, one thing we have not fully discussed is the theory that
> nagasiva mentioned, namely that Dee's synthetic language was not in
> fact angelic, but was rather a cypher code covering his political
> spying on behalf of the English government. 

not my intention to carry the thought-train from cipher to some
conclusion, but that is certainly one of them. another is that
they couldn't muster the skills necessary to construct a language
that would satisfy basic linguistic structural authenticity and
so they went with a riff on Trithemius (compare the Sprengel Ruse
and the Cipher Ms of the Goldawnians to *found* the Golden Dawn).

> This theory gains in plausibility with every one of Dee's 
> typographical errors i encounter, for it leads me to 
> consider the possibility that the Keys are trial
> work-ups for coded messages, with an "in-progress" 
> feel to them. 

might this also obtain if they were authentic to magical
experimentation (they might have an 'in-progress' feel)?

> ...we are left with a problematic bundle of loose folio 
> sheets that may or may not represent a completed fair 
> copy manuscript. We will never know the answer to this, 
> but it is perfectly fair to ask it:
>
> Why would a mathematician like Dee make so many errors 
> in code, unless he were, perchance, CYPHERING the code 
> rather than deciphering it on those pages? 

or if these were rough drafts that he didn't have to bother
too closely with as long as he got most of the hard data in,
because he could do a final edit later from the first sources.

> Even i, never having seen the material before, could spot
> errors that James had not attempted to correct in his 
> exhaustive footnotes. 

that's suspicious, but I don't see the need for nefarious spy
plots and international intrigue. it does make for a more fun
story, however. :>

> ...let's say that Kelly really did relate those visions to 
> Dee and Dee really did write them down in good faith, 
> errors and all. 

that is my preference.

> Then is Kelly the source of the errors? ....

could be.  

> The matter of the wife-swapping (at the instigation of the angels, no
> less) and the fact that Kelly eventually ran off with Dee's wife
> sounds more like something from Mike McKinney's "Black Lodge of Santa
> Cruz" memoir than it does an account of sacred magic that gives the
> mage a closer view of Heaven and Earth than the common man is allowed
> to see.

well, say these are proto-Creation entities with new teachings to pump
up the spiritual condition of this Aeon's Super Heros, they might have
entirely new ethics, compacts with the divinity, etc., inclusive of one
or more new wives, treasures, and blissful ecstasy unending (as with
some Elixir Vital). hey, maybe they got to go to Muslim Paradise.

> As my scandal-o-meter rises....



yes, I understand the reason for your concern. not truly loving their
work, it seems to me semi-Solomonic and possibly demonological. that
might match the scandal content.

 excellent. 
 
> Why do all these folks who meet new species of angels always find 
> out that they are one better than the Jews, the Indians, and the 
> Coloured, eh?
>
> Both the team of Dee and Kelly and the team of Joseph Smith and his
> brother Hyrum Smith 

team of Crowley and (Rose) Kelly for the Lawbook Obeah-wanging.
team of Crowley and Neuberg for the Aethyr-Delving Voice-Visioning
in the aftermath of the GD in the echo of Dee/Kelly.

> claimed to utilize angelic communications to find hidden treasures. 

there's obvious immediate *and* symbolic appeal.

> Kelly's angels by the way (always, always, by the way), 
> informed him that wife swapping is a Good Thing and the 
> Mormon angels by the way (always, always, by the way), 
> wanted Smith to know that having lots of wives is a 
> Good Thing. 

how one treats one's chattel is of little consequence.

> Do women have civil rights in John Dee's Heaven? 
> In Mormon Heaven?

within the new covenant they established, I'd guess it
would reflect their present condition but liberated to
practice what they are taught is proper. do women have
civil rights who wear ceremonial dress? men? the issue
immediately becomes whether it is required or chosen.

in these two instances it appears primarily men's doing.
how the women felt about it I am not told in this narrative,
but I presume that it was greeted less than warmly. :> was 
it some kind of pretense for an affair waiting to happen?

> ...What use have i for a hierarchical and
> monarchical scheme of Heaven, ruled by Kings, and Princes, and
> Governors? 



you have use for it if it at all resembles the reality 
of the cosmos. the use of a map is how well it orients.
throwbacks to medieval gender roles are popular with brutes.

> Does anyone have civil rights in Heavens of this sort?

maybe the God rewards their ignorant faithfulness with
the truth post-mortem and they therefore, due to their
*good intentions* get their way paved to an equalitarian
and fully civil-rights-cized heavenly abode. those who
support the heaven-based principles instead get tortured by 
the psychotic God who laughs from a great distance above.

> I wouldn't aspire to a Heaven that mimics an Earthly 
> model of society for which i have no respect. 

even if this was some kind of symbol for something more
profound, more useful than a worn old societal construct?
I don't know it to be, but it wouldn't surprise me if
there weren't apologies along these lines.

> it ...does explain why it fails to charm me, a Jewish 
> woman.

yes but can it be redeemed by novel occultists piling
stupendous wonderful new magicKal (tm!) devices on 
top of it? will the real magical text kindly identify
itself, so that we can save ourselves the trouble of
having to unveil these savoury scandals and miscreants?

y
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.com@nagasiva
nocTifer