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To: alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
From: "Timothy Consodine" 
Subject: Re: Purgatory: The Big Con Game
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 02:30:36 GMT

 wrote in message news:897c70$lcs$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Purgatory does not really exist. There is no purgatory spoken of in the
> Bible. Only heaven and hell or spoken of in the Bible. Purgatory was
> invented by the Catholic Church to make money off of people when their
> relatives die. Billions of dollars have been taken from people by the
> vatican to pay for masses that are supposed to help get their dead
> loved ones out of purgatory. What a con game. Taking advantage of people
> during their time of grief for a lost loved one, by taking some of their
> money to help get them out of a place that don't exist.
> Catholics should hope that purgatory don't exist. Who wants to suffer
> for a few hundred years in burning heat before he can go to heaven.
> Why is it that when protestant Christians die, they go straight to
> heaven and catholics have to suffer in purgatory. Who wants to belong to
> a religion, like catholicism, that tells people they will suffer for
> hundreds of years in a place like purgatory. I can see why protestant
> songs are happy an joyous and many catholic songs sound like funeral
> durges. I would not be happy either, if I thought I was going to
> purgatrory.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY
1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly
purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death
they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter
the joy of heaven.
1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the
elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.[604]
The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the
Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to
certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:[605] As for certain
lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a
purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against
the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come.
From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in
this age, but certain others in the age to come.[606]
1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead,
already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore Judas Maccabeus] made
atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."[607]
From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered
prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that,
thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.[608] The Church
also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on
behalf of the dead: Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were
purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings
for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those
who have died and to offer our prayers for them.[609]
604 Cf. Council of Florence (1439): DS 1304; Council of Trent (1563):
DS1820; (1547): 1580; see also Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS1000.
605 Cf. 1 Cor 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7.
606 St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4, 39: PL 77, 396; cf. Mt 12:31.
607 2 Macc 12:46.
608 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 856.
609 St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41, 5: PG 61, 361; cf. Job 1:5.


Since you don't even know what the hell you're talking about, here's what
the church teaches:

If there is no purgatory, Why does Jesus make a distinction that certain
sins can and cannot be atoned for in the age to come?

Matt 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven;
but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in
this age or in the age to come.

...If there is no purgatory,  would St. Paul preach that some will be saved,
but only as through fire?
1 Cor 3:13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose
it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort
of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the
foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is
burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as
through fire.

...which emphasizes that nothing unclean will enter the gates of heaven:
Rev 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practices
abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book
of life.

Heb 12:28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot
be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence
and awe; 29 for our God is a consuming fire.


...which is typified in Isaiah:
Isaiah 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean
lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have
seen the King, the Lord of hosts!” 6 Then flew one of the seraphim to me,
having in his hand a burning coal which he had taken with tongs from the
altar. 7 And he touched my mouth, and said: “Behold, this has touched your
lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin forgiven.”

...and we will all be salted with fire:

Matt 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for
you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown
into hell, 48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one will be salted with fire.

If there is no purgatory, who are all those "under the earth" mentioned all
throughout the Bible?

Phil 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on
earth and under the earth,

Rev 5:3 And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open
the scroll or to look into it,

Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the
earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To him who sits upon the
throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever
and ever!”

…who are the spirits in prison?

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for
the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the
flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the
spirits in prison,

Those "under the earth" are obviously not joined with those in heaven:

Luke 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s
bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; 23 and in Hades, being in
torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his
bosom. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send
Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am
in anguish in this flame.’

Luke 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been
fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able,
and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you,
father, to send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, so
that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’

...If the rich man is in Hell (gehenna) he would not have any concern for
any of his relatives still on earth.

This clearly shows that the rich man is able to love -- which can only
result from God's grace.  Souls in hell have no compassion - only contempt,
hatred and total seperation from God. They have no compassion for those on
earth

And look at St. Paul’s 2nd letter to Timothy:

2 Tim 1:16 May the Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he
often refreshed me; he was not ashamed of my chains, 17 but when he arrived
in Rome he searched for me eagerly and found me-- 18 may the Lord grant him
to find mercy from the Lord on that Day--and you well know all the service
he rendered at Ephesus.

The expression “grant mercy to the household...” and the prayer in verse 18
seem to indicate that Onesiphorus had died before St. Paul’s Letter was
written.  St. Paul speaks well of Onesiphorus for his good work -- but he
does not presume immediate entrance into heaven for his friend.
Even if Onesiphorus is not dead, Paul still asks the Lord to be merciful.
Why be merciful, if all Christians go straight to heaven immediately after
death?  Either St. Paul is praying for a dead person, or we have him
interceding for him -- for mercy on his judgment day.

In either case, purgatory alone can explain such thoughts of  St. Paul. If
there is no purgatory, then Christians go straight to heaven, which is the
popular Protestant belief. If this is so, then Paul's remarks are totally
off base; it would be meaningless to ask mercy for Onesiphorus. Purgatory
alone makes the passage coherent.

Protestants removed these two books from the Bible because they contained
direct references to purgatory.

2 Maccabees 12:44 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen
would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the
dead. 45 But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for
those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from
their sin.

Sirach 7:33 Give graciously to all the living, and withhold not kindness
from the dead.


--
http://www.flash.net/~timothyc/