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KO'Neill: Vipassana/Zazen

To: alt.zen,alt.philosophy.zen,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.meditation.vipassana
From: (Tan Chade Meng)
Subject: Re: KO'Neill: Re: Vipassana/Zazen
Date: 3 Oct 1995 02:34:48 GMT

Just some small clarifications here.  The person who originally wrote
this post seems a little ignorant of the Chinese language.  I'm Chinese,
so I guess that makes me the "horse" who owns the "horse's mouth".

nagasiva ( wrote:
: [from alt.philosophy.zen: (Ken O'Neill)]

: Nirvana means to extinguish - not the passions, but the source of misdirected 
: passion - avidya, or witlessness. Or in Chiense, mumyo - not bright. 
: Ignorance is not supported in original languages.

This statement is inaccurate.  In Chinese, the source of all sufferings 
is "Than", "Zhen" & "Chi", which means Greed, Hatred and Ignorance.

: Nor is "right". You know right. As in the 8fold path, starting with 
: samyakdrsti/shoken - "right views." BS. both the Skt and Ch mean full or 
: complete.

Yes and no.  In Pali (a close cousin of Skt.  The Buddha is commonly
believed to speak either Pali or a language very close to it), the word 
used is "samma", as in "samma sati" for "Right Mindfulness".  Now, 
the word "samma" should really mean "Perfect" (as in "samma sambuddha", 
"Perfectly Enlightened Buddha").  So u'r right tt the 8-fold path should 
be "Perfect thought", "Perfect speech" ...etc....  The original rendering
of "Right" was errornous, but it stuck.

Having said that, however, the 2nd part of your statement is wrong.  In
Chinese, the word "Zheng" is used, which means "Right".  Of course, due
to the usage of Chinese words, one can argue tt "Zheng" could mean
"Perfect", but tt's stretching things a little.

: Key words to buddhadharma are these: awakening/waking up, 
: naturalness/spontaneity (jinen), nondual liberation (vimoksha versus hindu 
: moksha (dual)), and mugyo - NOT practice/not goal.

If u'r refering to Chinese, then this statment is wrong.  In
Chinese Buddhism, "key words" include "xiu xing" (to practice), "zheng
guo" (the "right fruit", or "right goal", or nirvana) and "guan ding"
("to observe and to stabilize", or mindfulness & concentration).

: Hope this is yeast for sake making fermentation.

Hope I had clarified the few minor errors before fermentation begins.


Meng the Merciful    \(^_^)    \(^o^)/    (-_-)zzz
|                    |                                                |
|   Tan Chade-Meng   |                              |
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