a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


Rick: Nagarjuna and Buddhism

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.buddhism,talk.religion.buddhism,talk.religion.misc,talk.philosophy.misc,sci.philosophy.meta,alt.zen
From: (nagasiva)
Subject: Rick: Nagarjuna and Buddhism
Date: 11 Apr 1997 01:12:24 -0700

[from uk.religion.buddhism: rick ]

C.V.T.Richards wrote:
Hi, C.V.T.,

> If I understand correctly, Nagarjuna did not oppose to the notion that
> phenomena exist, but, rather that the self-nature (svabhava) of the
> phenomena, which we presume to be inherent in the phenomena,
> are merely a construction of our inability to see the true nature of
> the phenomena. The 'true' nature of a phenomenon is that it is empty of
> any self-nature.(Ref; Hopkins, 'Emptiness')

This is the essence of all Buddhism in the sense that it defines dukkha and
generally why "we" are stuck in it.  It's kind of a sanitized/conflated remake 
of Noble Truths 1 & 2, and less effective, IMVHO.

> Thus, phenomenon minus self-nature exist but are not considered real.
> Since, according to Buddhism in general, the only state which is real is
> unconditioned and permanent Nirvana. If the svabhava is 'unreal' and
> nirvana is real, to what state should ascribe the remanant phenomena to?

This is not a coherent question...yet.  I believe Nagarjuna was addressing
the issue of living in balance between Emptiness and Conditioned reality,
hence the term "Middle Way."  The whole point of experiencing Emptiness
and/or "True Suchness" is to break free from the karmic bonds of
Conditioned Reality. Until we do, we are subject to the terms and
conditions of karma.  Hence, the compassionate formula of Middle Way,
which is the vehicle from samsara to nirvana, or one way of looking at it.

Don't know if this helps, and I'm too lazy to look up any references. 

Take care,
In the Dharma,

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races