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To: soc.religion.eastern
From: Lorenzo Farris (
Subj: Dukkha (0000.0dukkha.lf)
Date: unknown

Quoting: |Tan Chade Meng (

|While sufferings and pain is arguably separate, there is a strong
|correlation btwn them.  Taking your eg. of having a girlfriend for
|example.  Humans, like all beings, have the evolutionary needs, it
|ensures our survival as a species.  When one gets involved with a
|member of the opposite sex, we produce endorphines & other hormones to
|make us "happy".  Similarly, the body reacts negatively to the lost
|(or potential loss) of a mate.  These chemical reactions in our
|bodies are real, not "fantasyland", and they contribute to our sense
|of pain and sufferings based on the external events (in this case,
|having or losing a mate).  Can we just dismiss this as "fantasy" & hope
|that it goes away?

That was my point. That physiological responses are real. Suffering,
however, is mentally created. For example, I am acutely aware, as
the trees start to bloom, and the college girls start underdressing,
of my endocrine system. Or, to put that in plain english, I get horny
in the spring. That is real. My body reacts. Suffering, however, would
be to dwell on that.

|Taking another example.  When I get my migrane attacks, I get a nausea
|& I lose the ability of walking or even clear thoughts.  Again, my pain is 
|not a "fantasy".  Can I just lie to myself, "No, I'm not experiencing it".

No, that is the opposite of what I suggest. Granted, under some
circustances it is very difficult to detach sufficiently not to
suffer. Pain is not meant to be ignored. It is a signal from the body
that things aren't right. In the case of a migraine, the intelligent
response to that pain is to find some way to make it stop.

|What I'm saying is that pain (and suffering) has its roots in biological
|and evolutonary being.   Every element of pain (or suffering), eg
|hunger, getting a heart attack, losing a mate, losing a job, etc can be 
|traced to biological roots.  R u saying that pain can be stopped?  Or
|r u saying that we can just cease our suffering just by pretending that 
|there's no relation btwn pain & sufferings?

NO. I am saying pain is indeed real. Suffering and pain are related,
but suffering is under our control, ultimately. Suffering is a possible
reaction to pain. It is not the only possible reaction. I don't suggest
to pretend anything. Just become aware of the chain of events that go
from pain to suffering. 

Suffering does not enhance biological survival. Pain does. Pain forces
an entity to respond to immediate danger of some sort. Suffering is a
common human neurosis that arises in response to pain, among other

Pain is real. Suffering is not. Pain != suffering. Suffering is a mental
creation. Pain is based in physiology.

Happiness is just a                     *  Lorenzo Farris                   
remembrance away.                       * 

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