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To: alt.co-ops From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM (tyagi mordred nagasiva) Subject: Buddhism and Empowerment (9408.buddhsm.tn) Date: 49940827 Quoting: |claudir@hubcap.clemson.edu (White Horse); |>tyagi |>|White Horse |>[When looking at the Greed for the following:] |>Wealth: root = impoverishment |>Power: root = powerlessness |What are the root causes of impoverishment and powerlessness? These are feelings which come about through attachment to: Wealth/Substance/Resource/Possession (in the case of feeling impoverished) Power/Influence/Ability/Control (in the case of powerless) |>|Are those not misguided attempts at satisfying certain basic human |>|needs which are not being satisfied and because these needs are not |>|being fulfilled in proper ways, greed follows? |>They can never be 'fulfilled'. Greed is a result of clinging to that |>which is impermanent. |I think we may be interpreting "fulfilled" differently. Needs can be |fulfilled in the way the need for water is fulfilled when this need |manifests itself as thirst. When speaking of greed, it can't be 'fulfilled' because it is a veritable 'black hole'. No amount of wealth will satisfy, no amount of power will satisfy. This is because the problem does not proceed from a lack of the things grasped (what is 'enough' is subjectively assessed to a great extent). |>|If we could get to the root of it and satisfy these needs in healthier |>|ways, do you think that maybe we will be able to uproot greed? |>Addressing the root, the branches of the weed shall never been |>'satisfied', yet they shall dissolve. |I don't understand what you are trying to convey here, Tyagi... Hurt, the child cries. Bandaging the wound, the child still cries. Only by protecting the child for a moment, hugging hir, sheltering hir, shall the inner wound be addressed. Yet she may still cry, because she is attached to having us hug hir. She will not be 'satisfied' until she releases control and begins to feel equilibrium in vulnerability. |>|Would this not be the way to empowerment? |>Empowerment can only come about by seeing oneself as powerless and |>enjoying it. |One sees oneself as powerless and does something about it. There is nothing which can be done about it. Feeling powerless we shall continue to try to 'fill up' on power. The power will not fill the hole. This is why yogis and sensei may be bereft of all social ability, bereft of physical mobility, bereft of their very life, and still retain their equanimity. This is why those who wield incredible social power, slashing their might through countless victims, oppressing millions, are still not 'satisfied'. |Being powerless is not enjoyable. If it were enjoyable we would |not be discussing co-ops here. It is possible to enjoy powerlessness. We are all powerless to a certain extent. Power is relative. Can we enjoy our powerlessness, enjoy our power? If so, then we can reside within our peace, even while we work within a dynamic of social adjustment. Thus, inside I am at peace, even while outside there is turmoil. Inside I have all the power I need, even while outside I may work for more social power in order to effect righteous circumstance, yet I will not grasp that power, hold onto that power, make it my fulcrum of tranquility. |..The way to empowerment, I think, is to reconize one's needs that are |not being appropriately fulfilled and to learn how to allow these needs |to be met in healthy ways, which are often contrary to what this |society teaches us. I agree with this completely. Attempting to fulfill our needs, however, we shall come to see what our needs truly are if we are observant. |I think Robyn has said some very insightful things in this respect. |Have you read her postings to this thread, Tyagi? I have read and enjoyed them greatly. I feel that they are some of the more profound articles to have passed my screen of late. |>1. There is greed/suffering/dissatisfaction. |>2. This arises in consequence of attachment to that which is impermanent. |>3. The cessation of dissatisfaction is the solution. |>4. This cessation may only be reached through the discovery of one's |> place in the cosmos. |Nice little philosophy, sounds Buddhist to me. Is this where you are |coming from? These are my take on the 'Four Noble Truths of Buddhism'. Traditional teachings strewn through the warped mind of the tyagi. |I agree to #3. I feel #4 sounds good in theory but is not very practical. |I am looking towards more practical solutions. #4 is my approximation of the 4th Noble Truth of Buddhism, which traditionally consists of the 8-fold Path to Nirvana. I have reinterpreted it to avoid a bit of the moralism which sometimes accompanies fundamentalist Buddhist theory. You say that it is not 'practical'. I say that if one's intuition is attuned to the cosmos, it is the most practical path available. Absent this, it is probably best to follow one's own ethical system or a moral system devised by some group of the faithful. |If the end result is #4, cool. Caveat: I am only describing a theoretic (one which I have found to be quite valuable), not a moralism. I don't say it is 'Right' or 'True', just that I've found it to work. I.e. it is a description of a practical system, according to which one may determine one's 'dharma' or 'life-path'. #4 is traditionally the 'prescription' (as a doctor would prescribe a remedy to the ailment - the ailment being suffering/dissatisfaction brought on by the root cause, craving). The 'end result' is contained in #3, and is usually termed 'Nirvana'. Nirvana is best translated as having been 'blown out' (like a candle flame), and this is describing what has happened to the craving (which is how I characterize the 'branches' in my previous post - having 'dissolved'). |Right now, though I am concerned about ways and means to meet ones |needs (felt, perhaps as "dissatisfaction"). Yes, as is the bulk of humanity, according to many systems of thought. Whether these needs can truly be 'met' is the issue (as well, perhaps more importantly, as if they are really 'needed'). |How to become satisfied? The idea which I am presenting (again I do not say it is the only answer) is that 'dissatisfaction' is the result of craving. Due to this craving we grasp at things which are impermanent - they do not last. By 'grasping' here I also indicate an emotional attachment to the object of our desire. In attaching ourselves to the impermanent we are cast out-of-center when the object changes, as all objects tend to do. One description of how to end the *craving* which leads to dissatisfaction is said to have been taught by Siddhartha Gautama. As you ask for more 'practicality', I shall endeavor to become more specific as to the traditional teaching (though I warn you that it will not become much more specific because each person has their own unique 'solution' to life-circumstances; their own 'place in the cosmos', or dharma). |#4 only describes a possible end result; it is not helpful towards |finding ways and means towards ending this sense of "dissatisfaction" |or void that so many people feel. Yes, and I say that there is no one, specific panacea which may be described in concrete terms. This is because every person is unique, arises in hir own unique way, and requires a unique 'combination', if you will, of acts and rests. The way that my #4 is usually stated in traditional Buddhism, as I see it, is the following: The 8-fold Path to Nirvana is the means by which this cessation may take place. (Of course the teachers then go into more and more specificity regarding this '8-fold Path to Nirvana'. I shall only describe to you the very vague necessities. If you wish concrete, 'practical' advice I can also prescribe a few of the traditional remedies, though I'm not convinced that they will address your particular circumstance.) The 8-folds or 'right factors' (the term 'right' is usually a pragmatic descriptor, not a moral invective) are: 1) right understanding 2) right thought 3) right speech 4) right action 5) right livelihood 6) right effort 7) right mindfulness 8) right concentration I hope you now see why I described it as the 'discovery of one's place in the cosmos'. This could also be said to be one's 'dharma' or 'lifepath'. |You say the cause of this "dissatisfaction" is attachment to that which |is impermanent. Consider: I am thirsty. A need is expressing itself; |if it is not met appropriately, I feel dissatisfied. Your thirst and your equanimity are different things to a Buddhist. Without equanimity, then no amount of water shall suffice to truly and lastingly satisfy us. With it, even dying of thirst is the experience of the Thousand Heavens. |What attachment is expressing itself here? Attachment to not being thirsty leads to dissatisfaction in thirst. |Is water impermanent? Shall I cease my "attachment" to water? |Or is thirst impermanent? Shall I cease my attachment to thirst |by stilling it appropriately with water? These are very wonderful questions. My understanding (as an ignorant monk of little training) is that ACCESS to water is impermanent and that the STATE of being watered is impermanent. In order to retain satisfaction we must refrain from attachment to being either thirsty or not thirsty. |What is #2 *really* saying?? #2 Dissatisfaction (dukkha) arises as a consequence of attachment to, linking our satisfaction in a one-to-one relation with, that which is impermanent. |I am not so interested in getting into any deeply philosophical type |of discussion, especially if it is just theoretical. It is en eminently practicable theoretic which may be applied in order to understand one's self and retain equilibrium in any circumstance, with practice. Also, contrary to many theists, it need not conflict with one's religious sentiments. |Right now my attachment to water is an essential part of survival here. Your ACCESS to water (in order to surfeit a biological need) is an essential part of the survival of your body. Your attachment to water, to access it, or to control over it, is not an essential part of your experiential satisfaction (at least this is the idea). |By way of analogy...empowerment is a basic need as is water. One problem with this statement as I see it is that 'basic need' does not describe your minimum requirements. Thus it may justify your attempt to control all water in excess of your strict biological need, just as your confusion of social power or power-over with personal empowerment might lead to oppressive behaviors in an attempt to 'satisfy your basic need for empowerment'. I agree with you that these things are needed for healthy living, in moderation, yet that place of moderation is not always an easy place to locate, and it need not be linked to our overall satisfaction. |When this is not met in healthy ways, we encounter the kind of problems |we see in this world today and which has already been pointed to in |this thread so I won't repeat it here. My perception is that most people who struggle over resources have more than they need to live 'healthily', though they do not understand their actual minimal necessities. The reason the struggle ensues is that people are acting out of their dissatisfaction *rather* than their true health- need. |The question is how to recognize, validate, verbalize and meet these |basic needs in healthy ways, especially empowerment which should enable |us to meet many of the other needs to? Recognition - this depends upon awareness of ourselves and I think it is one of the most important aspects of the individual path. It is through 'recognizing' our place in the world that we may come to satisfaction and thereafter express and address our biological needs without harm (ahimsa). Validation - once we have found our place, then we can support others in finding theirs. Recognizing our place (dharma), we begin to see more clearly when another is recognizing theirs, though we need not judge them in their activities. Verbalization - this is only of partial value, since while the medium of our expression dictates the communication that will carry it to fruition, the verbalizing does not actually produce the satisfaction which we may have regardless of whether our physical and mental needs are met. Air, food and water are only of biological importance. The mind may find equanimity, *empowerment*, in the *experiential* realization that all things pass, that we are as ephemeral as the clouds, and that attachment to impermanent 'objects' leads to our suffering; that is, in recognizing what we truly are and how our attitudes and approaches affect our state of being. tyagi nagasiva tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss _______________________ PS, I will be RE-posting this to a couple of buddhist newsgroups for fun. My intent is to avoid drawing controversial buddhist discussion into alt.co-ops, however. ;>
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