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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.lucky.w,alt.magick.folk
From: blackman99 
Subject: Re: Spellwork Reliability and Guarantees
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:41:30 GMT

50030121 VII om

chive:
>>>> He paid the equivalent of £250 for the spells, but went to 
>>>> police when the term indicated by the witch expired without 
>>>> any changes.

"Blue Rajah":
>>> Her mistake was to offer a definite result with a clear deadline.

blackman99:
>> precisely.

>>> It's always best to leave the results vague and the timeline 
>>> open-ended.

>> results -- presumably the results which may be expected by the client.
>>            given the unpredictable nature of the spell's outcome, 
>>            leaving the results which may be expected vague is a wise 
>>            course.
>>
>> timeline -- open-endedness is not important so much as a lack of
>>             guarantee. without certitude in the method employed, 
>>             whether by the client or by the spell-caster hirself, 
>>             leaving it open-ended leads to needlessly-wasted time 
>>             waiting, when watching for signs and employing more 
>>             skilled personnel may be more effective. those with 
>>             such certitude will offer their assistance with some 
>>             kind of money-back guarantee.
>>
>>> For good measure, you can always add a condition that one be "pure of
>>> heart" or some such phrase that refers to some condition that can't be
>>> measured or observed....
>>
>> or even those which can, but are peculiar, or difficult to obtain, like
>> being the Seventh Son of the Seventh Son or being 'gifted', or being
>> an initiate of the proper coven or order.

hi Christopher!

"Christopher Warnock, Esq." :
> It is kind of hard to guarantee magic since its effects are 
> often so subtle.

it is easy to guarantee it, but it may be difficult to convince
the client that one has successfully used magic on their behalf.
the failed spell will require return of the money. if costs for
labor and materials are covered otherwise, this seems reasonable.

> It's not like your washing machine which either cleans 
> clothes or it doesn't.

why not? why isn't the result either "I won the lottery" or
"I didn't win the lottery"? why isn't it "I got my boyfriend
back with this Reconciliation Spell" or "I didn't"? it seems
to me that at least these kinds of spells are black/white.
my guess is that this pertains more to your particular style
of employing magic (on objects (talismans) which others may 
use for their spells and rites).

how can we tell that your talismans are more than their
physical craft? is *this* somehow guaranteeable?

> It seems similar to a matchmaking service. They could do 
> a great job of setting you up with someone who should be 
> compatible and it still may not work, love being what it is.

so there are no 'sure things' where magic or magic-workers
are concerned? even if all the proper ingredients are employed,
by the proper magician, the recipient could still somehow flub
the result while they're being serviced by the conjure? 
maybe you are just talking about talisman-production here. 

> I do guarantee that I will do the work properly, i.e. get 
> the astrological election right, make the talisman at the 
> right time, use the correct materials and ritual.

that's very helpful. it insures the quality of the form.
John M Hansen was guaranteeing the results too. I.e. "I get
paid if you get results". it is an interesting approach
that doesn't seem very sustainable outside charity or skill.

> Another problem is many clients have never done any magic 
> before and thus have no idea whether the magic worked or not.   

how can we tell if magic works other than by looking at the
kind of 'black/white' results I described above? are there
'marginal effects' we may not see (i.e. there was what was
called 'some movement' but nothing coming completely our way?)?

> Clients experienced with magic are a real blessing since 
> they have a realistic idea of what is possible and confidence 
> in magic itself and their abilities.

so personal skill of preparing the materials and the employing
the materials is important. makes sense to me, yes. it sounds
as if saying a spell properly is less important than saying it
with enthusiasm and confidence, composure. in this case service
by magicians could be based on convincingness if nothing else. 
where the form is valued, one would desire conformance to a
desired tradition employing traditional materials.

> I note that there is an outfit called calastrology that does 
> claim to give a money back guarantee on their talismans.  They 
> appear to do a low cost high volume business and the guarantee 
> probably makes sense as a marketing tool.

interesting! thanks.

> Since I do a small number of expensive individually created unique
> talismans, usually to order for specific clients,  I simply 
> couldn't afford a guarantee, particularly since clients are so l
> outrageously unrealistic about what can be achieved with magic.

you could guarantee the base-level craftmanship (for which you
ought to be duly paid) and request donations beyond base-level
compensation in the event that your tool worked as desired 
(a slight shift from guaranteeing their result or their money 
back, which might become a tangled accounting if there were 
variable results).

> I have had questions like, "Can you guarantee that I will 
> win millions on the lottery?"  

good question. they're trying to see if you're a scam-artist
or obtain leverage against you in the event that what they
purchased doesn't perform as described. 

> Well, just think about it, idiot!  If I could, would I be
> selling talismans?  Wouldn't I just win the lottery for myself?

rich people give away money. lots of folks say that magic is 
in some way mysteriously connected with mysticism and ascetic 
vigour. you could be helping others to help themselves and
providing some fantasy-Grimm's-like experience I suppose. :>

> I also insist that clients must do their own consecration 
> ritual with the talismans. This increases their power, 

apparently the power of the talismans. sensible.

> ties their energy in with the client, 

indeed, in as personal a way as the client desires.

> and screens out the lazy fools.

yes, your activity is different in that you're not doing
the work on the client per se (such that a guarantee 
would cover their condition), but to a tool-by-request.

the witch previously mentioned had apparently guaranteed
her spell would bring results by a particular time, and
was properly called to account for it. :>

>Interesting question!

it is an issue with several strident proponents, 
whose cultural axioms I enjoy seeing contrasted.

blackman99
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