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Raphael with a Dagger

To: alt.magick
From: Sue 
Subject: Re: Raphael with a Dagger
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 03:34:58 GMT

In article ,
 Satyr  wrote:

> Sue  writes:
> 
> > In article ,
> >  Satyr  wrote:
> > 
> > > Heh. It happens. Part of the problem is that despite common
> > > notions to the contrary, the four archangels have nothing to do
> > > with the elements, at least in their origin. They were said by
> > > Agrippa, and possibly in I Enoch---too lazy to drag it out and
> > > look---to be the archangels of the four cardinal directions, the
> > > so-called "four winds". Since an element was attributed to each of
> > > the directions as well, much confusion has arisen.
> > 
> > Weren't there seven archangels? I know that four archangels tend to
> > be attributed to the directions and that four also tend to be
> > related to the throne of God, but there are also listings in which
> > there are seven archangels with each one related to one of the
> > 'seven' planets.
> > 
> > http://www.hmml.org/resources/Trithemius/Spirits.html
> 
> The "four winds", or the four archangels of the cardinal points, are
> sometimes associated with the four cherubim about the throne, but not
> sure I've seen this connection made explicit in some text or another.
> At any rate, I would personally be very hesitant to say the cherub of
> water *is* the archangel Gabriel. There may exist a relationship
> between the two, but not necessarily an identity.

I'm trying to locate the source where I had gotten the concept of the 
archangels surrounding the throne - it might have been that I saw the 
four archangels portrayed surrounding the throne in some art book or 
book regarding illuminated manuscripts, but I don't know for certain 
that this is the place where I got the concept. I've been going through 
a lot of sources of this nature for a while now though, so it might be 
where it came from. If I run across the source, I'll provide it.

It's also quite possible that I somehow just got it in my head that 
there was a connection, however.
> 
> The seven archangels of the Divine Presence, which are also the seven
> candlesticks of Revelation, and the spirits of the seven Churches
> which are in Asia, are usually each attributed to one of the seven
> planets of the ancients.
> 
> Of course, in the literature, there are more than a mere seven
> archangels. For instance, there is one associated with each of the ten
> Spheres. When we say "there are four archangels", or "there are seven
> archangels", it is within a specific context, referring to a
> particular set.

Thanks for the input. It seems I'll be doing some reading about 
archangels for a bit. Shortly after I posted, I found something on the 
net that made mention of different numbers of archangels. So far, it 
appears that The Book of Enoch is where the 
Michael/Gabriel/Raphael/Uriel grouping came from - or have I got that 
wrong somehow?

-- 
"...strange but not a stranger..."

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