THE
ARCANE
ARCHIVE
a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


TOP | OCCULTISM | MAGIC

a question on faith...cat? anyone?

To: alt.lucky.w
From: catherine yronwode 
Subject: Re: a question on faith...cat? anyone?
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:38:14 GMT

stavros_999@my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> one of the key ingredients of spell work is the faith that what you
> are doing will manifest a result right? the question i have is this:
> 
> how can one manifest faith who has in the past consistently been
> disappointed despite their faith? example:  a person who kept
> believing in miracles and got none, did the right thing in life only
> to get stomped on, etc....Take myself for example. I cling to this
> hope that things will get better despite the fact that at least on
> the surface they arent. Im doing a 7 day candle ritual, using money oil
> and green candle, and having charged the candle a little at a time for
> a week prior. (havent started the burning of the candle yet as the
> moon has been waning. but ive been meditating on the need with the
> candle ahead of time---need , not greed) If i go into the ritual with
> the notion that it "may not work but i hope it does" odds are i wont
> get the desired results, right?
> 
> so back to the question: how does one push the "i believe" button?
> how can one get the faith to KNOW the ritual will work?
> 
> thanks in advance
> 
> stav-

 Stavros, 

There are many opinions about the role of faith in the performance of
magic (and religion), but without knowing how you perform spells -- or
what faith means to you in terms of affecting your will or emotional
state, i really cannot answer.

This question comes up quite often in the vairuos alt.magick.*
newsgroups, in one form or another. Right now a thread titled
"epistemology and magick" is ongoing in which folks are discussing how
one knows what one knows about magic -- and whether having preconceived
opinions about the outcomes of magical operations is a valid point of
view or mere self-delusion. 

In that thread, Tom Shuler, who is quite skeptical -- but not an
offensive "professional skeptic" -- recently had this to say about
testing magic for results. Firsrt he stated the opinion (a common enough
one) that htere is very little that separates magic from religion, and
that religion is, in essence, a form of magic. Then he said: 

>    Most folks draw a very big distinction between observing 
>    plays on a stage and the performance of religious rituals.  
>    Both are emotionally moving when done well.  Both may have 
>    attendees who are more conscious of trying to be
>    where they are supposed to be than they are aware of 
>    just what they're doing.  Yet, a distinction is drawn.  
>    One is entertainment and the other is a personal 
>    relationship with the wisest and most powerful force 
>    in the universe.  This is the difference belief makes 
>    in the performance of magick as opposed to the 
>    performance of a play.

{...}

>    [Magical] experimentation is done to observe outcomes.  
>    If you don't believe in some outcome, you won't do the 
>    experiment.  At the very least, someone has told
>    you there will be a result and you want to see what 
>    it will be.  

So, in his opinion, and it is a valuable one, albeit slightly
reductionist in the matter of faith, one should not merely undertake a
course of performing spoells for results, but rather, one should learn
about the dimensions of the reality of magic, by keeping an experimental
mind-set and firmly distinguishing participation in magic fro (or
religion) from participation in an entertainment such as a play or
role-playing game. 

I hope this helps. 

cat yronwode 

Hoodoo in Theory and Practice -- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist: tyaginator@arcane-archive.org.

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.

SEARCH THE ARCANE ARCHIVE

There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase

OTHER ESOTERIC AND OCCULT SITES OF INTEREST

Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races