THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
	a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick.tantra
From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nagasiva yronwode)
Subject: Magicians and Knowledge (was Black Magick site, con or real?)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 07:53:06 GMT

50001119 Vom 

"Scot" :
> I have taken a casual interest in magick for a while then I fell away 
> from it, now the interest is back.

welcome.

> The last time I had an interest in it, I found out a site on Black magick. 
> I sent away an email inquire about more imformation. The email I got back 
> detailed a ritual I had to do before I could be initiated.

valuable: see the ritual before undergoing it.
question: value of initiation?

> I can't remember the exact details but it was something like I 
> had a light a candle at midnight in front of a mirror. I then had 
> to recite the words of the Lords prayer backwards.

Catholic-repellant. unusual, perhaps set up by anti-Christian "sorcerers". 
considering they bill as 'black magick', perhaps this is to be expected.

> It said, I think, if I stopped saying the prayer before I finished it, 
> I would be plauged by demon(s).

typical barrier-placement to reify decision, test your resolve.

> I then had to send my personal details (just name and address etc) 
> to the site plus a note saying I did the above ritual.

note: you were trying to get something from these people; you didn't
      just "have to" send your personal details, you "had to *in order
      that this group would take your request seriously*".

> I did not naturally. What scared me was not, the demon shit 
> (excuse my french), but the power they would have over me on 
> learning of my personal details.

living a less private life, few details could become problematic.
taking risks can yield beneficial results.

> I feel that some of these people who claim to know magick, 
> know no such thing, and are only interested in gaining power 
> and financial gain over others.

responding with regard to a mystical aim (magicK)....

this is quite true. the trick is to determine with some skill who
is who: who is seeking for marks and who wants to share wisdom;
it is important to remember that for some, magic includes social
jockeying, obtaining power and resources, etc. i.e. they may be
using skills we could learn from them were we not focussed on the
fact that they were using them against us. ;>

> Has anybody had a similiar experience?

yes. the problem is one of balancing ignorance (of the position 
and condition of others) against one's intuitive knowledge about
occult subjects. principles which I devised in exploring occult 
and mystical communities and subjects have served me well to 
this day:
		        proceed slowly -- never decide on impulse
		  outlay few resources -- commit to the minimum
           preserve examining attitude -- study the details
		   retain an open mind -- allow for the unexpected
	       get a jump on new folks -- gather information
   	     nurture key relationships -- invest your time wisely
	     rest assured of your path -- remain composed
    	      dedicate yourself wholly -- remain true to your goals

where your conventional methods fail, do exactly what you are doing: 
set out to obtain feedback from as wide an audience as is possible, 
weighing the response and likely experience, insight, behind each 
person's input. select among those which seem most convincing and
proceed accordingly.

I have not found that the problem ever goes away. there is always
some fabulous master claiming special mystical states or magical
power who is just out of my range of perception and insufficiently
of interest such that I will go out of my way to spend the time 
with them that would be necessary to ascertain their condition, 
let alone what I may glean by sharing their time and attentions. 

I've begun to presume that a narrower range of experience truly 
exists between spiritual ignorance and spiritual expertise -- that 
the knowledge of states and psychotechnologies is only of limited 
use, their application achieves minor changes one way or another, 
and that the rest of journey is undertaken intuitively, from a
position of feeling moreso than thought.

::changing premises (now magic without a k)::

however, if you're just talking about magic, then it is pretty easy
to tell who knows about it and who does not, though the styles may
differ from one group to another, one person to another. however,
the principles remain roughly the same, and the signs of this will
permeate the acts and expressions of those with whom one deals. the
key feature to look initially for is intentionality, combined with
a patience that will accept you for who and how fast you move.

blessed beast!

nagasiva
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