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To: alt.magick,alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick From: catherine yronwodeSubject: Re: Lifting Curses (was: other) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:16:35 GMT nagasiva wrote: > > can belief be used to *break* a curse? I mean, if someone > gets convinced that the curse is illusion or a delusion, could that > generate enough negative vibes or something to break the curse? I have seen belief used to break a curse happen, but only (in my experience) when accompanied by a full-blown religious conversion experience to a religion in which it is explicitely stated that curses have no power against the mightier power of the deity. Remember last year, that material i had you archive from the fundamentalist Christian church in which specific prayers were said to break the power of hoodoo curses placed by root workers? That's the kind of thing i am talking about. The full text is archived at http://www.luckymojo.com/esoteric/occultism/magic/folk/hoodoo/ih200104prayersagainsthoodoo.txt But what follows is a sample from "DELIVERANCE FROM VOODOO [sic] AND AFRICAN CURSES" by Ivory Hopkins, Deliverance Minister and Pastor ----- PRAYER: Father in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I take my stand against all conjure balls used against me and my family line. The angels of the Lord encamps about me to deliver me and I send them to destroy the power of these conjurations. I return these curses back from where they came and cast down and cast out any demons that have been sent against me and my family. I loose myself and my family from good tricks of witchcraft, and bad tricks of witchcraft and trick by using body parts, whether mine or someone else's. I command, in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ any commands of witchcraft against me or my family to be broken and its power to be destroyed in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. PRAYER: Father in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I break any roots worked against the judicial system and anyone involved with the Godly judgment of the judicial system. I command these spirits to leave now. I cast out and cast down their power of control on me or anyone involved. Father, I loose the protection of the Lord over all who are involved with the case or praying for it, in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. PRAYER: Father in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I bind the power of any toby in this place that would try to control me or anyone in this room. I take authority over the demons that work through it and command them to come out in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. ---- In the above case, belief in the power of Jesus Christ is used to break curses associated with hoodoo rootwork. But from where i am standing, it looks an awful lot like substituting one powerful belief system for another -- trumping the curse rather than denying that curses exist. > > Nothing has shown me otherwise. But I can see how telling someone > > that will not help when they're in a bad situation. > > when the man raved at me and told me he was the King of the Devils, > that I should be worshipping him, and that he was going crazy trying > to figure out how not to be tortured because *he could never REALLY > be alone*, having achieved the Sumum Bonum, the Knowledge and > Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, and reached the pinnacle > of spiritual experience, trying to convince him of more than that > the available assistance of all manner of psychiatric or spiritual > help he might feel predisposed to seek out was available to him at > his activation. > > and though he claimed he felt cursed by this state > he was in, one moment weeping and another expounding in arrogance, > I don't think it was quite the same kind of thing as a possession, > which Christians and others say that they can drive out, or a curse, > such as was the subject of your discussion. That doesn't sound like a curse to me (who would have cast it?) or like possession. Did you consider that the phenomenon might be the result of recreational drug (ab)use or mental illness? > but I found that telling this man that the delusions weren't real > was being faithful to my care for him, and to an attendance of > ritual and ceremony which perhaps only those of the same brotherhood > would seek to endure. And then what happened? I mean, after you said that to him? > Asiya's advice might not apply to a client, > agreed, presuming that individual is coming to be spoken to in a > certain respectful manner within certain axioms of belief, but it > might apply in other situations. You say that the individual is "coming to be spoken to in a certain respectful manner" -- but then, aren't most people expecting to be spoken to in a respectful manner? And i do not think avoiding mention of mental illness is a sign of respect. You have overheard me on the phone when i give free consultations, telling people that i think they have a thought disorder or brain chemical imbalance, or directly asking if they are under psychiatric care -- so you know that. Remember the woman to whom i broached the subject of mental illness and then when i got off the phone i told you that the conversation had suddenly changed from her presentation of a curse symptomology-set to her asking me if i thought she needed to get back on her meds, and thanking me for asking her to call her psychiatrist and get her prescription of anti-psychotics renewed? I mean, if she did make that call and got back on her medications, i accomplished a curse removal for her just as truly as if i had driven out the demons of hell, because she was having delusions of being cursed. Lucky for her, she was experienced enough with her own mental illness to know that intrusive thoughts about curses being cast upon her might not based in fact and might be addressed with medications. > plain speaking is sometimes exceedingly important and effective in > getting the results that one desires, however, and placing faith in > the nonexistence of the curse in order to combat it doesn't seem > completely unreasonable to me on the whole. Right. But what about Mary H., whom you know? The jealous co-worker who threw powders on Mary's car was real (and got reprimanded for it). She was apparently not deluded in her belief that she was being cursed. Based on her years of experience within her cultural framework, she knew full well that she was being throwed for. She also knew what steps to take -- and had already taken several by the time she called me (including traditional spiritual baths as taught to her by her mother). The successful resolution of her situation did not depend on her renouncing a belief in jinxes or tricks -- rather it required that she deploy the right protections and reversing spells to send the mess back to the man who pout it on her. This she did, and he got in trouble, while she had the victory. When a client presents as "I am cursed," talking together at length is the best way i know to figure out the true nature of the problem and help them work to change their situation. cat yronwode Lucky W Amulet Archive --------- http://www.luckymojo.com/luckyw.html
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