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To: occult@hollyfeld.org (Occult Elist)
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer)
Subject: (O) Invoking Demons as Christian Magick
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:31:29 -0700 (PDT)

49980402 aa2 Hail Satan!

peace be with you, my kin.

[most deleted from the original as the elist has a no-quote policy]

as I see it there are traditional and more rational approaches
to what has been called 'Christian' (or Christian-based) magick
in relation to demons than opposition, and this is what I've 
been studying for the last few months in some depth (a reason I 
respond here).

traditionally the Hermetic mage (typically heavily influenced
by Christian ideas) takes on an almost Persian perspective (esp
in the Solomonic grimoires) as regards summoning and compelling
spirits of a presumably antagonistic character which are often
valuably compared with the Persian/Arabian 'djinn'.  the nature
of the entities is left to the probably differently-oriented
magician (the Christian tending to see demons as 'Fallen Angels' 
after the Apocrypha rather than as wild creations of the Most 
Compassionate within Middle-Eastern folklore).

the typical style (esp again of Solomonic magick which I am
currently reviewing) is the construction of a circle of power
(this was heavily inspirational to Gardner and others of the
Hermetic culture) inscribed with various godnames and the
names of archangelic protectors.  a triangle is constructed
outside this into which is presumably evoked to visible
appearance a demon or malevolent spirit.  the various grimoires
are more than just telephone books for calling up the spirits
or demons that often also contain information necessary to
*control* them: their names, their sigils, what they do and
what they have power over in the world (whose Lord is their
commander).

I personally find the whole idea repugnant, neither believing
that these spirits are inherently evil nor content to preserve
an adversarial relationship to them.  I plan to offer myself
to them each individually for possession in the rallying of
the Army of Darkness to the service of defending the weak
(Satan, wild nature).  I think this is a glorious and truly
Christian endeavor whose like I have never before heard, and
it corresponds very nicely with the Buddhist monks whose Chud
rites involve a self-dismemberment and feeding of the demons
in a display of never-ending compassion.

[commentary welcome]

peace be with you,

blessed beast!
________________________________________________________________________
nocTifer: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com  ---  http://www.abyss.com/tokus
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From occult-owner@hollyfeld.org  Tue Apr 21 15:03:29 1998
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Subject: (O) Demon Summoning
To: zazas-l@hollyfeld.org (ZAZAS-L Satanist Elist)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: occult@hollyfeld.org (Occult Elist)
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer)
Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga
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[large batches omitted to conform with the elist's no-quotation policy]

49980402 aa2 Hail Satan!

peace be with you, my kin.

I do not know that demons (spirits antagonistic to the conventional
Christian religion) are born into any realm.  why could they not
have been around since the mythological 'Beginning'?  I make no
claims about either distinction or encompassment by the human
psyche.  I think that such generalizations are not very helpful,
and that spirits generally seem to dwell in the Between World
that lies on the borders of consciousness.


re how names and seals might be used to contain and control spirits: 
actually I think it is purely a function of willpower and that these
details allow the mage to bolster strength and courage sufficient to
overcome the sometimes fiery and contesting wills of the demon.  it
is explained quite well in such fantasies as _The Master of Five
Magics_ with some supplemental material in Asprin's 'Mythadventure'
series.  

I presume that Jehovah is a tribal god of the Jews, for example,
that Jesus was a mythical character exemplifying the entry into
the 'Sonship' of a manner not unlike that applied to the variety
of competing gods surrounding the pre-Christian Jews, and that
the projection of ranking and names upon the demons originated 
from within a culture obsessed by social placement and feudal 
power-relationships (the medieval).  this is also reflected in 
how the Chinese view(ed?) the Confucian celestial hierarchy and 
their own demonologic constructions.

as I have said many times in the past, I view demons as terran
energies long ostracized and oppressed, and Satan as the Wild
Lord, personification of the spirit of wild(er)ness.


re the intent of Solomonic magic possibly being reintegration of
 the demon as a fragment of consciousness into a 'whole' self:
I don't think this is the intent, no.  the triangle and the circle
are both ideal (celestial) and 'divine' forms, and they are 
entirely protective and intentionally separated.  the circle
shields the mage within an armor of god-power, the triangle
restrains the demon within a kind of cage into which the mage
may cast torturous bolts of energy and call upon the demon with
god-names (these supposedly offensive or hurtful to the demon) 
as a potent manner of paining conformity.

not only this but the intent is always to keep the demon FROM
the mage, the angels integrated WITHIN hir.  this is illustrated
well by conventional Hermetics, even those who are quite 
willing to work with the demonic energies.  have a quote from
a fellow to whose text I was recommended by a friend on the
characteristics of "black", "grey", and "white" magick in as
study of Goetic summonings:

	According to a variety of religious systems,
	including Christianity and Judaism, the
	universe is separated into three realms or
	"kingdoms"; that of Heaven, Earth, and Hell.
	Heaven is home to angels, Earth to humans,
	and Hell, of course, is populated by the
	demons....

	..."higher" beings, such as Gods and angels,
	may be invoked, and "lower" beings, such as
	spirits and demons, may be evoked.  ... the
	practitioner is capable of invoking demonic
	energies, as well as evoking angelic beings
	to visible appearance.  These acts, however,
	are contrary to currently acceptable behaviour
	and moral codes, and no positive benefits
	whatsoever could be achieved by performing
	them.  Althought, this subject does lead to
	an interesting topic of conversation.  The
	fact that stimulates this matter is that the
	two above acts would be classified as "black"
	magic.

	The classification of magickal acts as being
	either black, white or gray, is a well discussed
	subject.  Although many opinions exist, the
	determination whether a magickal act falls into
	these three categories should be made based on
	the following criteria:

		White magick is an act in which the
		intention and/or results of a ritual
		affects no being whatsoever, other
		than the practitioner, and only in a
		helpful or positive manner.

		Grey magick is an act in which the
		intention and/or results of the ritual
		affects some being other than the
		practitioner, but only in a helpful
		or positive manner.

		Black magick is an act in which the
		intention and/or results of the ritual
		affects any being in a harmful or
		negative manner.

	If an act of magick results, even accidentally,
	in harm of any kind to another being, or themselves,
	the practitioner has (whether willingly or unknowingly)
	performed the "black art".  The karmic reaction will
	take effect regardless of the intention of the
	practitioner.

	For this reason, the act of invoking demonic energies
	could only result in the misfortune of the operator,
	thus bringing harm to themselves, unwittingly or not.
	The evocation of an angelic being would be harmful
	to that being.  In addition, the sight and strength
	of presence of angelic entities would prove intolerable
	to the psyche, as well as the senses, of ninety nine
	percent of the world's population, inevitably doing
	some, and possibly great, harm to the practitioner
	making the attempt.  Again, an act of black magick,
	and for these reasons, the topic shall end here.  It
	should be made clear that the author neither endorses
	nor condones the practice of the "black arts", and
	would not suggest instructions thereof.

	There are those who contend that, since evocation
	imprisons the spirit, and considerable threats are
	directed towards them during interrogation, the act
	would constitute being one of black magick.  This
	statement would not ring true, should the intention
	and results of the act not permanently affect another
	being.  If the results somehow have negative effects
	on another, the act would slip under that dividing
	line, and the operator would have inadvertently
	practiced the black art.  However, the intention of
	evocation is frequently of a positive nature, and
	this act would not fall into the realm of a black
	operation, until the undesired results manifest.
	The operator should never intentionally harm the
	spirit evoked, although these consequences may
	conceivably result, should the experiment go awry.

	For all practical purposes, it should be generally
	accepted by the student that... those beings above
	man on the hierarchical ladder should only be called
	down by invocation, and those beneath man shall only
	be summoned up through evocation.  No variation of
	this rule would be considered morally or ethically
	acceptable, and a strong sense of both morals and
	ethics should be considered as virtues of great
	importance and value to the aspiring practitioner
	of the arts, as well as to any human being.
	----------------------------------------------------
	_Goetic Evocation: The Magician's Workbook, Vol. 2_,
	  	by Steve Savedow, Eschaton Productions, 
		1996; pp. 6-7.
	____________________________________________________

as I come to the subject from a different perspective I'm 
doing AWAY with the god-oriented, conscription-based formats in
my own rites, instead (from what I having constructed thusfar
in my plans) centering the rite and seal in a terran SQUARE,
and INvoking demons in a friendly welcoming manner rather
than demanding their presence and obesiance.  

I find Saevedow's warnings to be helpful for the *conventional, 
anti-terran* mage, and think that given such an orientation 
it would indeed be harmful to try what he warns against.

I also disagree with him that summoning without the INTENT
of harming spirits is ethical, since it is like trapping
wild animals to see if they will yield treasure or service.
inevitably they will struggle and get hurt in the cage, and
my aim is to abide the Wiccan Rede in all my actions.

and

49980404 aa2 Hail Satan!

peace be with you, my kin.

there are two perspectives of which I am aware that incorporate
demons in the posts I have written thusfar:

	   TRADITIONAL, SKY-BASED 

	   demons are some type of anti-Yahweh army led by the
	   Great Rebel Satan in the attempted overthrow of the
	   Glorious Christian hierarchy (as elaborated quite
	   well by Saevedow).

	   the names of beings (gods, spirits, demons) have been
	   for centuries the key to their power and autonomy.
	   this is standard magical presumption.

	   demons exist, within this dualistic perspective, 
	   as spirits, dwelling in the Underworld within which
	   the Lord of this World (Satan) rules, and may be
	   summoned into the terran world if one knows the
	   proper ritual procedures and signal keys.


	   PECULIAR (MY OWN), TERRA-BASED

	   demons are loci of consciousness that are not under
	   our direct control.  whether this is described in
	   mythical or psychological terms is unimportant as
	   regards their reality in the experience of the mage.

	   the perspective I offered was that demons are old
	   gods and nature spirits, oppressed and excluded
	   portions of consciousness within the natural self,
	   that may be called out (evoked) or in (invoked)
	   through the usage of symbolic tools and gutteral
	   expressions of will ('barbarous names of power').

	   they exist on the periphery of consciousness and
	   are therefore available to our interaction by virtue
	   of being part of us and part of the world in which
	   we still partly reside (as it includes vestiges of
	   the wild -- usually in the form of gardens or parks
	   or occasional visits to preserves or in our own 
	   rebellious wildness that escapes the ravages of
	   'civilization').


the typical 'magical' rites of the conventional Christian are 
either exorcism or eucharist.  the first opposes the demonic
and the second embraces the deific.  it is important to consider
whether the notion that the divinity accomplishes the task
necessarily obviates the qualification of the rites being 
'magical' (as compared to the mere preparation for them, which
strikes me as relevant).  locus of cause features heavily in my
ideas about what magick includes.  but we've discussed this
specific topic (magick/prayer) at length here previously.

some Satanists (as conventionally treated) would have the
situation reversed: the deific opposed and the demonic embraced.
as I understand the Christian instruction of the gospel, we are
to embrace all manner of beings, demonstrating the Love of God.
it is in this way that my own Satanism simultaneously differs
from the convention and is included within a Christian ethic.

 
re the technology used to summon and commune with demons:
the technology is resident to the text in many if not all cases.
it is described in a variety of grimoires and forms the substance
of several fantasy novels (inclusive of that which is taken
seriously as fact within scripture).  I have described it rather
well in my previous post, and I think a great deal of material
can be found within shamanic and ceremonial texts of the world.
one can find it in _Book Four_ by Crowley, a number of texts by
the Golden Dawn, text by William Gray, Arthur Edward Waite, as 
well as more skeptical writers like Richard Cavendish.

the description of how it is possible is fairly commonplace,
even in popular literature (cf. 'Faust' for example, or even
the spiritualist necromancers who equated the spirits with the 
dead).  I don't understand why this poses any sort of problem, 
since it is also described by Wiccans and several African 
diaspora as regards their gods.  that one group regards them as 
'gods' (or 'orisha') while another as 'demons' does not, to me, 
negate the real technology that is exemplified by these fairly 
large traditions.

peace be with you and blessed beast!
________________________________________________________________________
nocTifer: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com  ---  http://www.abyss.com/tokus
TOKUS-COE Office: 408/2-666-SLUG --- Emergency Contraception:18005849911
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