To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick,alt.religion.voodoo,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.witchcraft
From: blackman99 
Subject: Voodoo Dolls to Control Someone (was VODDOO ...)
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:51:21 GMT

50020605 VI

I found this post in a spells newsgroup but want to launch a greater
consideration of the subtleties involved with it...

>> CAN U USE  VODOO DOLLS TO CONTROL SOMEONE'S WILL?

the question is one with many dimensions. its elements are as 
follows as best I can analyze:

	a) voodoo dolls

	what are they? do they necessarily derive from something
	resembling the religion of Voodoo? or is 'voodoo doll'
	being used here in a wider sense (poppet, doll-baby) and
        outside any particular religious context?

	is there a central origin for the concept of a doll-baby,
	poppet, or fetish doll? how closely are these related to
        other kinds of magical dolls, such as Guatemalan worry
	dolls? Ekekkos? Haitian divination bottles with dollheads?


	b) controlling another with doll-magic

	is identification a necessary feature of the magical spell?
        what are the minimum necessary requirements for such an
        identification? a name-paper? their hair and nails? bodily
        juices? favourite baubles? when is the seal between the
        intended victim and the doll formally made? is torture for
        domination at all necessary? are there conventions for the
        symbolic significance beyond obvious manipulations of the
        doll such as destroying it, placing it in a coffin, etc.?

	additional materials necessary in the spell? Compelling
        Oil? Commanding Oil? Calamus? where does the tradition
        of associating Calamus root with domination derive?

	 [Agrippa wasn't decisively behind the association,
	   at least not in his Three Books of Occult Philosophy.
           I found no references to Calamus in Crowley's writings. 
           the hoodoo literature is full of it. perhaps it derives 
           from something Germanic (for example see 
		http://www.luckymojo.com/compelling.html
		http://www.luckymojo.com/compelling.html ]
 
	what other roots, herbs, and minerals might be used with 
	a doll to dominate another person? does the doll's 
	composition (e.g. made of cloth of particular type and/or 
	colour?) make a difference? can it be made of sticks and 
	leaves? how closely must it resemble the target to be 
	effective?

these questions are central to the subject of 'voodoo dolls'.
composite responses posted anterior to this analysis welcomed
and may be compiled for future public reference.

blackman99