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The regardie arguement the story so far

To: alt.magick
From: Nick Farrell 
Subject: The regardie arguement the story so far
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:44:14 +0000

This debate has bought to light some interesting things and people.
It has also led me to check out a few facts.  As a result I can now say
that I have changed my mind about Yorke being the source of Regardies
5=6.  I am satisfied that he was never a member of the Stella Mat.
I have been reviewing these notes with Bob Gilbert including a few
letters he has.
In my own mind I am content with the Jan 1933 date for Regardies
initiation into Bristol.  This co-incides with what he said and other
papers presented here.  Earlier dates suggested by Draconis confuse the
relationship with the chiefs with actual membership. The date coincides
with letters that Gilbert has between members of the Bristol temple
(senior but not chiefs) about Regardies tree of life book which
indicates that most of them had never heard of him up to August 1932.
(You would expect that they would if he was a follow member).
The question of his grade when he entered however is open to dispute.
There is no way the Bristol Temple would have allowed an accelerated
leap up the ladder to the extent that Regardie would have had to reach
5=6 by December.
There was a three month wait between 8=4 and a nine month one between
Portal.  Bristol were sticklers for it and like many semi-masonic
organisations jumping grades was a special thing and would have been
noticed. (There would have been some members angry that a wiz kid had
been bumped up the grades so fast as there had been some who took years
to go up the grades)
Gilbert thought it odd that neither Coothelan (who only said Francis was
a member) nor Francis Perry who were around at the time had never
mentioned such a tradition breaking rise to fame.
If a 5=6 certificate exists then this would be easy to check and he has
suggested that who ever has it fax him a photocopy.
"I know what one looks like from that period and I can check the
signitures there have been famous forgeries of certificates in the
Bob pointed out that the earlier addition of Golden Dawn was full of
significant ritual mistakes.  He said the 5=6 was particularly notiable
for its errors.   
"They are the sort of errors that were either incompetence or someone
copying out something without really knowing what was going on," Bob
It could be that the 5=6 in Bristol had declined badly.
Bob's solution to the issue is that either Regardie didn't get his 5=6
in Bristol or they acknowledged his previous work in another GD order.
"Regardie was not a member of Waite's order, we know he didn't got to
New Zealand, BOTA and OTO would not have counted, " he said.
However there was a London temple of the GD which is a bit of a mystery.
"However there is absolutely no documented proof from Regardie or anyone
else that he was a member of another GD temple," Bob said.
The other alternative is that Regardie was given his 5=6 by someone else
If there is evidence of Regardies 0=0 certificate being from Bristol
then he could not have made 5=6 and got it from elsewhere (which would
be interesting to find out).  If his 5=6 certificate is shown then we
know he must have belonged to another recognisable order before that
date (which is also interesting). Both of the above theories allow for
Regardies reputation to remain in tact.
My own view has always been that Regardie could not have got his 5=6 in
Bristol and so far I see no reason to change my mind.  I have never said
that Regardie was not a 5=6.  
Nick Farrell

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